I think the different punches is likely to be as simple as they used whatever punches they had available in the factory in question, and different factories had different punches available.

Jason

^^^^^^thats what i think too.

Within the uk/u.s that punch is pretty standard, maybe back then that was the punch style that was commonly used?

I've been reading this thread with eager anticipation, awaiting my first Trilogo 70c figure, which arrived today.

It's a Taiwan COO on the figure, and etched edges on the bubble.

Like has been said earlier, if I now didn't know better i'd have thought it was a fake - they are so flimsy.



Keep it up with the info' - it's making a cracking read.

Hey Paul, good to see you getting involved !

That is the exact same figure I got on a 70C way back when I thought it was fake, It just felt so low budget and completely different at the time.

Great figure by the way!

mr_palitoy wrote:

I think the different punches is likely to be as simple as they used whatever punches they had available in the factory in question, and different factories had different punches available.

Jason

I can get on board with that theory. However, it doesn't fully explain the switch for some of the factories like what Panastur posted earlier. Especially if we take into account the Phase 1, 2 accounts.

I've probably already answered my own question with the idea that it was a move to further unify the line.


NEVERMIND!!!!!!

I just re-read Panastur's post again. And his explanation of Uk/USA tri-logo pretty much sums everything up for me regarding the punch change back and forth.

Good lord the info he provided is still soaking in.

I forgot to add, I find the 70C cards *very* interesting as some of you may have realised by now lol

I was hoping to try and get as many 70C cards as possible but most of the good deals I found were 70B I think it might definitely be a sub focus of mine in the future, and will try to get the 70C version where I can!

RebelChris wrote:

mr_palitoy wrote:

I think the different punches is likely to be as simple as they used whatever punches they had available in the factory in question, and different factories had different punches available.

Jason

I can get on board with that theory. However, it doesn't fully explain the switch for some of the factories like what Panastur posted earlier. Especially if we take into account the Phase 1, 2 accounts.

I've probably already answered my own question with the idea that it was a move to further unify the line.

I personally think the punch holes were to reflect what was being used in the stores in each country, hardware like shelving and shop displays vary from country to country. You can see how some Kay bee stores adapted the cards by punching a hole with a hole punch (nooooo) on some cards as they had "double pronged" store displays.

I think the larger French and Spanish displays probably just had a larger end tip to the rod that comes out of the display rack and instead of replacing all the displays to cater for a different card size they just requested the change to be made during production at the factories.

Yeah i remember getting a tri logo cardback in a bulk lot years ago and couldn't believe just how thin it was.

With the super fragile bubbles too its amazing that any Tri gets a grade of 80 and above.

Hi Guys,

I must admit that i am not too much in the figure variants and i have a lot to learn about it. I believe it never bothered me that much because at the time, toy companies provided stocks between themselves; Palitoy was the major provider because it received either from Kenner, Far-East production, Mexico and Spain production. Spain provided Kenner, Palitoy and Meccano for some figures.(remember the 4 cantina aliens Spain produced for Kenner; "Made in Spain" Kenner Jedi cards??). Palitoy was the center piece in the toy distribution in Europe.

For you Del, this is a Luke Jedi Meccano Phase 2 Trilogo card with the cape in the green sleeve included in the bubble. It could means Meccano received a stock of this variant from Palitoy. What do you think??


Now about the different punch-hole's (this goes to RebelChris); as already said by another member, in the first phase of production, each company used what they had already used in their previous JEDI line; Palitoy JEDI--->Palitoy 3L, PBP JEDI--->PBP 3L, Meccano simply copied his Spanish neighborhood during the GMJ period...and so on.
Then, we can suppose that some orders were given to harmonize the punch hole ...or that each company ended copying the Palitoy format.

Great post....
Panastur

Wow Panastur,

My Jaw dropped when you posted that photo as that is my card that I bought back in April (I posted it on Page 2 of this thread)

Here it is again...






Why would you say this is a Meccano Release Panastur?


I would like to update my Luke Jedi Guide will the correct infomation if I can, so if you help that would be great. For those whose missed earlier if you look behind luke you can see the Tiawan cape with green sleeve.


This baby had to come from a kenner Baggie like this for example:



As the factory only released "Kenner" (USA) Baggies

Joe_O wrote:

I forgot to add, I find the 70C cards *very* interesting as some of you may have realised by now lol

I was hoping to try and get as many 70C cards as possible but most of the good deals I found were 70B I think it might definitely be a sub focus of mine in the future, and will try to get the 70C version where I can!

Hi Joe_O,

Just a question; Is the descriptive labelling A, B, C and D follows a chronological order??? I say that because what we are calling "70C" is undoubtedly the last kind of produced card. Like the 70A(hybrid cards), released at the end of the second phase... I know that this kind of descriptive is already well installed in the community but it always sounds weird to me...

Thank you,

Panastur

Craig T wrote:

Wow Panastur,

My Jaw dropped when you posted that photo as that is my card that I bought back in April (I posted it on Page 2 of this thread)

Here it is again...






Why would you say this is a Meccano Release Panastur?


I would like to update my Luke Jedi Guide will the correct infomation if I can, so if you help that would be great. For those whose missed earlier if you look behind luke you can see the Tiawan cape with green sleeve.


This baby had to come from a kenner Baggie like this for example:



As the factory only released "Kenner" (USA) Baggies

Wow Craig, this is incredible....If carded figures could speak they'll tell you how much they traveled...lol

Just compare the back with another 3L back(one with an etched corners bubble to avoid another Meccano card), you will probabely notice that textures are diferent. Meccano back had a granulated reflective surface compared with the more smoother surface of the Palitoy card...

Just try and let us know...

Panastur wrote:

Joe_O wrote:

I forgot to add, I find the 70C cards *very* interesting as some of you may have realised by now lol

I was hoping to try and get as many 70C cards as possible but most of the good deals I found were 70B I think it might definitely be a sub focus of mine in the future, and will try to get the 70C version where I can!

Hi Joe_O,

Just a question; Is the descriptive labelling A, B, C and D follows a chronological order??? I say that because what we are calling "70C" is undoubtedly the last kind of produced card. Like the 70A(hybrid cards), released at the end of the second phase... I know that this kind of descriptive is already well installed in the community but it always sounds weird to me...

Thank you,

Panastur

Personally I think it tried to follow a chronological timeline BUT also because of other reasons as well (and to an extent this is how it always made sense to me even if its not completely correct) :

If we are to think of trilogos coming *after* all domestic packaging (Pal/PBP/Meccano etc) to combine the three major languages for future distribution then chronologically speaking all the hybrid cards serve as a transitional phase between the normal ROTJ Pal cards and a new trilogo design: therefore coming FIRST (A), similarly if we move on to B and C , B was a proper trilogo card and considered the typical and common trilogo so it gets (B) with the cheaper version (C) being almost identical apart from the elongated border it was probably given the (C) designation to differentiate between the two (probably not following any chronological timeline)

When we move on to D with the last 15 figures, it would make sense to me that it was labelled D because the figures were the last in the line and are not on any other Tri cards, and they were the only 15 to have the barcode design.


I don't think it was based on hard facts and a factual timeline rather what seemed to "fit" in the SW timeline (i.e POTF figures coming later than ROTJ/ESB/SW)

That's a good point of view... Thank's Joe_O

Craig T wrote:

Why would you say this is a Meccano Release Panastur?

Firstly because this card was mine years ago and i remember labelling this card as "Meccano production", and also because the use of a typical Meccano bubble like this Luke Hoth...

I am almost 100% sure this Jedi Luke is a Meccano. Just make what i told and tell us...

Panastur

You are welcome! Although- that's only my interpretation of the A,B,C,D backs- I think it was invented by John Ford here - http://www.palitoy.org/cardback/palitoy.html

And when John vanished from collecting Jason (Mr palitoy) picked up the torch here - http://mrpalitoy.webs.com/

You can see that the A back is viewed by John as a transitional cardback. (Unfortunately his site hasn't been updated since 2005 and I just found out he is completely out of collecting )

I find trilogo collecting incredibly satisfying in terms of researching the line and the variants because it involved so many different countries under an almost identical look yet was changed and adapted with each factories/licensees touch!

Miles better than Kenner

Also for the record - I think the general collector only really needs to know the A,B,C,D designations to kind of "get" trilogos - its very simple and whilst it might not be correct and a little based on assumptions of the timeline it definitely helps to see the differences between the major variants

I must ask you Panastur (and sorry if I overlooked it) Is your knowledge of the timeline of these figures completely based on collecting and research or did you have any links to any of the companies back in the 80's or any employees?

Joe_O wrote:

I must ask (and sorry if I overlooked it) Is your knowledge of the timeline of these figures completely based on collecting and research or did you have any links to any of the companies back in the 80's or any employees?

Well, i always loved our european stuff and i done some homework on the matter, visiting and speaking with involved persons across Europe. Firstly on collecting, then you need answers that only persons who has worked in this business can answer you.

I would like to say much more but there's some work in progress...

Panastur (time to diner...see you tomorrow)

Panastur wrote:

I would like to say much more but there's some work in progress...

Very interesting See you soon mate! As always - thanks for the discussion and information

I'm getting a little confused now with the luke jedi tri logos posted.

Craig, the one you now have, that turns out used to belong to Panastur (how mad is that!) says made in hong kong on the card.
So how come you refer to it as Taiwan? i have never heard of them being mixed (hong kong card/taiwan figure), i know in the world of baggies this would never happen. Im sure your right as you know way more about luke jedi than i do im just confused lol.

If its meccano, then could it be from a macau baggie? I can't remember if the macau bagged luke had his cape in a sleeve or not.



This thread is great btw

Some more great updates from you guys...

Panastur wrote:

Wow Craig, this is incredible....If carded figures could speak they'll tell you how much they traveled...lol

Just compare the back with another 3L back(one with an etched corners bubble to avoid another Meccano card), you will probabely notice that textures are diferent. Meccano back had a granulated reflective surface compared with the more smoother surface of the Palitoy card...

Just try and let us know...

Agreed Panastur: Wow that is amazing! Out of courestiy when did you own it? The guy on ebay said he had it for a good few years. As for the 3L Back Test Results : Yes the back does has the texture you described . I compared it with a 70-C Large bubble with etched corners and I can see the difference. Is the grainy reverse side unique to Meccano? I am sure that some of my other Luke Jedi Tri-logo MOC had a grainy back. I will have to check.

Joe_O wrote:

I find trilogo collecting incredibly satisfying in terms of researching the line and the variants because it involved so many different countries under an almost identical look yet was changed and adapted with each factories/licensees touch!

I can see why this thread is right up you street, finding out something new about your cards is really satisfying I had no idea that my card was a Meccano.

Del wrote:

I'm getting a little confused now with the luke jedi tri logos posted.

Craig, the one you now have, that turns out used to belong to Panastur (how mad is that!) says made in hong kong on the card.
So how come you refer to it as Taiwan? i have never heard of them being mixed (hong kong card/taiwan figure), i know in the world of baggies this would never happen. Im sure your right as you know way more about luke jedi than i do im just confused lol.

If its meccano, then could it be from a macau baggie? I can't remember if the macau bagged luke had his cape in a sleeve or not.

This thread is great btw

Thanks Del. Regarding Luke Jedi Tri-logo Cards though:

All the Tri-logo cards (with 3L on the front, i.e. B, C, & D) have the "Made in Hong Kong" printed on the front of the card. This is just a generic part of the card design. I can't speak for all figures, but for the particular case of Luke Jedi: This print should be ignored and the figure inside should be examined carefully inside to ascertain the COO. "Panastur's" MOC above is contains a 100% "Made in Taiwan" Luke Jedi (You just have to believe me here ). This is depsite the print on the card saying otherwise. I have seen stickers written in French or English corrrecting the print with the correct origin of the figures but in this case, a sticker was never used. I know Meccano corrected Maceo figures with a "Made in Maceo" sticker that would cover the incorrect print, but not sure why a "Made in Taiwan" sticker was not used here. The Green Sleeve is a unique feature of the capes on Taiwan Luke Jedi figures.

In all you can find:

1) A NCOO Luke Jedi (originating from Hong Hong)

Example 1: (This version is the 70-C and has Luke Jedi with Cape loose behind figure)



Example 1: (This version is the 70-B and has Luke Jedi with Cape loose behind figure)



2) A "Made in Taiwan" Luke Jedi

Example 1: (This version has Luke Jedi with Cape Still in the sleeve behind figure)



Example 2: (This version has Luke Jedi with Cape On)



3) A NCOO Luke Jedi (originating from Maceo)

I don't have this specimen in my collection yet, but you can see one in stephenies Meccano to Tri-logo book. I plan to get one at some stage. If you click on the thumbs you may start to see the relative differences between the countries' figures. Please see my Luke Jedi guide to see learn more about the Luke Figure.

Thanks for clearing that up mate.
I have just today put a emperor up in the classifieds with a macao sticker over the Hong kong, so fully understand what you are saying.

My Macao Tri logo ERG does not have this sticker altho it does have the macau punch.

Its Strange that thse lukes did not have a Taiwan sticker put over the hong kong.

Del wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up mate.
I have just today put a emperor up in the classifieds with a macao sticker over the Hong kong, so fully understand what you are saying.

My Macao Tri logo ERG does not have this sticker altho it does have the macau punch.

Its Strange that thse lukes did not have a Taiwan sticker put over the hong kong.

Good morning Guys,

Really, just forget about the "Made in" printing in the lower right hand corner. As Craig said, it's a generic print from were every 3L cards are copied.
At the beginning Meccano took his time to print little stickers to reflect the real origine of its figures. This practice was already used on the late Meccano JEDI cards but it was slowly abandoned due to the extra work it generated. At the end, they really didn't cared about what was printed on the card or from where the figures were issued. Everything was so mixed up that the only important thing was to sell these quickly...

Again Del, not all the ERG were made in Macau, some in HK, even in Spain and if it has the rounded punch hole with no GMJ marking at the back, then its a 1st Gen Meccano.

Panastur mate going back to the Tri-logos in general.

How many countries/factories would you say printed and carded the figures on Tri-logo MOC?

And going back to Jo's 70-C ... how many of the entire Tri-logo 70-B range made to the newer card?

Craig T wrote:

Panastur mate going back to the Tri-logos in general.

How many countries/factories would you say printed and carded the figures on Tri-logo MOC?

And going back to Jo's 70-C ... how many of the entire Tri-logo 70-B range made to the newer card?

Hi Craig,

Factories that produced action figures are; HK, Taiwan, Macau and China at the beginning. Then, with the wish to reduce distribution and cost transport, production was moved to the new factories of Mexico and Spain.

Companies that packaged Trilogo cards; Palitoy(UK plant in Coalville), PBP(Spanish plant in Hostalric), France(Meccano plant in Calais) and Germany(Parker plant in Rodgau).

For the 70C(UK/USA); Almost all were produced on this 70C card, apart the ones edited on the "Hybrid Cards"(4 aliens, BSG, CCP,...), 15 PotF figures (Lumat and Paploo are the only of the LAST17 to be edited on the 70C), the Deat Star Commander and the Power Droid. All the rest was available on Trilogo 70C card.

Panastur