I don't have a problem with the prices put on sales. If people are willing to pay them, fair enough.

Deliberate mis-selling, on the other hand, I do have a problem with.

I know this image is a recard, but the figure used has a part-painted wrist dart. Is the part-painted wrist dart a characteristic ONLY associated with Poch Boba's, or is it something seen across a broad range of variant COO's???



(Cardback image source : http://www.ffurg.com/FForums/index.php?showtopic=3455&mode=threaded&pid=30012)

In case that bubble has been painstakingly mounted on a reproduction card by a certain ebay seller,, chances that is a POCH Fett are close to zero.

More likely it is an oridinary Fett with a small paint error, I guess.

Dr Dengar wrote:

In case that bubble has been painstakingly mounted on a reproduction card by a certain ebay seller,, chances that is a POCH Fett are close to zero.

More likely it is an oridinary Fett with a small paint error, I guess.

I have edited my post to include the link to the original image source in case it helps.

I'm not bothered about the authenticity of the Fett inside, As you say it could be anything as the card is a reprint and then mounted.

I just wondered if anyone knew anything about Fetts with part-painted wrist darts. Other people must own them surely? Are they indicative of anything in particular or are they just a factory error that can be common across the board regardless of COO?

plantainman wrote:

I just wondered if anyone knew anything about Fetts with part-painted wrist darts. Other people must own them surely? Are they indicative of anything in particular or are they just a factory error that can be common across the board regardless of COO?

I don't know. My guess is that it is a factory error.

You could post your question in the thread below, to get some more response.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5261p30-is-this-a-variant-thread

Follow up from page 19: http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4427p270-the-poch-pbp-discussion-thread

Below you see comparison pics between a Bossk from Spain and a Kenner Bossk, both having COO#1.
A POCH Bossk with COO#3 was also included to show the differences in the degree of green of the limbs (no green, brownish green, toxic green)


Bossk: Kenner COO#1 (left), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (middle), confirmed POCH Bossk with COO #3 (right).


Bossk: Kenner COO#1 (left), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (middle), confirmed POCH Bossk with COO #3 (right).


Bossk: Kenner COO#1 (left), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (middle), confirmed POCH Bossk with COO #3 (right).


Bossk: Kenner COO#1 (left), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (middle), confirmed POCH Bossk with COO #3 (right).




Compared to his Kenner brother, the Bossk from Spain has:

• Greenish limbs. probably due to discolouration. Not so green as the confimred POCH Bossk though. ( see also http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/bossk/ )
  
• Paler yellow limbs, probably also due to discolouration, Note that the Kenner version also has pale limbs, but less pronounced.
  
• Small chest cross
  
• Typical PBP smell
  
• Bigger pupils
  
• Darker red lips and eyes

This figure pops up in Spanish childhood collections and therefore it seems very likely that it was available in Spain during the 80s. To me this figure has clear differences compared to his Kenner brother.

I am curious what you think.



...here is a family shot.

From left to right:
- Kenner COO#1
- Figure from Spain COO#1
- POCH Boskk COO#3
- PBP Bossk COO#4

From what I understood, the Cantina Aliens made their first appearance on 45/47 El Imperio Contraataca cards in Spain.



Source: http://www.starwarsspanishstuff.info

I was wondering what type of figures were released on these early cards. Different options are possible:

1. Hong Kong figures with small paint differences. Possibly welded/painted in Spain like the confirmed early POCH figures on 37/41 backs: Class I/II Figures.
   
2. Imported HK figures: Class IV figures.
   
3. Spanish produced PBP Cantina Aliens with scarred COO: Class III Figures.
   
4. A combination the above options

Today I received a Hong Kong Hammerhead from a Spanish childhood collection. The guy told me that he had received all SW and ESB characters from ESB cards when he was young (and ROTJ characters from ROTJ cards).

I had no reason to disbelieve him as many of his SW and ESB figures were indeed confirmed early POCH variants, which were released on ESB 37/41 backs.
So I thought this Hammerhead could therefore shed some more light on the topic.

Let's find out.....


Below I made some comparison shots.

Hammerhead: PBP scarred COO (left), Kenner HK COO (middle), Spanish childhood figure HK COO (right).


Hammerhead: PBP scarred COO (left), Kenner HK COO (middle), Spanish childhood figure HK COO (right).


Hammerhead: PBP scarred COO (left), Kenner HK COO (middle), Spanish childhood figure HK COO (right).



I don't know what you see, but I conclude there is no difference between the middle and right figure. This makes option 2 most valid at the moment.
It seems unlikely that PBP (POCH) welded/painted Hong Kong Hammerheads, like they did for (some of?) the characters which were released on the 37/41 backs. Probalby this extends to the other Cantina Aliens as well.

So statement to be tested:

PBP did not weld/paint any of the Hong Kong Cantina Aliens, instead these figures were being imported.

Later PBP produced their own Cantina Aliens (with scarred COO).


Curious what you think...

Does the statement hold?




EDIT: It appears that the 45-backs already contained PBP's own produced figures (Class III).

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4427p540-the-poch-pbp-Post-thread#99161

I also received a Luke X-Wing from the same childhood collection. It is the figure on the right in the pics below.

I am very pleased with him as his emblems are still very well conserved.

Luke X-Wing, from left to right:
- Kenner Hong Kong COO
- POCH Hong Kong COO
- POCH Hong Kong COO










Compared to his Kenner brother, the POCH Lukes have:
- Pale hands
- A bit darker orange skin of the face
- Different spray mask used for the chest device, e.g. the little red square in the top right corner.
- And a few other imperfections we don't talk about anymore.

Read more in Wolff's guide: http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/luke-pilot/

I also received a Death Star Droid from the same Spanish childhood collection. I compared him to two Kenner DSDs having the same COO.

Might this be a early POCH droid, released on a 37/41 back?

Death Star Droid: Kenner COO#1 (left + middle), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (right).


Death Star Droid: Kenner COO#1 (left + middle), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (right).


Death Star Droid: Kenner COO#1 (left + middle), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (right).


Death Star Droid: Kenner COO#1 (left + middle), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (right).


Death Star Droid: Kenner COO#1 (left + middle), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (right).



Do you see any convincing differences? :scratch:

I don't.


Options:

1. This is no POCH figure.
   
2. POCH produced/welded/painted DSD figures do not exist at all, only imported HK figure which were put on El Imperio Contraataca cards.
   
3. POCH produced/welded/painted DSD figures do exist, but there is no important difference compared to Kenner figures

What is the best option?

I think I have to do it.

There is not enough money in the world to pay Dr Dengar for his effort to keep this threat running.

You are doing an incredible job and your collection is really on the top. CONGRATULATIONS

Sinceraly

A while ago I obtained a Tusken raider from a (different) Spanish childhood collection, which also contained a few confirmed early POCH figures.

Time for a comparison!



Tusken Raider: Kenner (left + middle), Figure from Spain (right).


Tusken Raider: Kenner (left + middle), Figure from Spain (right).


Tusken Raider: Kenner (left + middle), Figure from Spain (right).


Tusken Raider: Kenner (left + middle), Figure from Spain (right).


Tusken Raider: Kenner (left + middle), Figure from Spain (right).


Tusken Raider: Kenner (left + middle), Figure from Spain (right).



The most obvious difference between the Tusken Raider from Spain and the Kenner figures is the colour of the bandolier. It is darkbrown with a strong hint of purple, almost eggplant colour. Though Kenner figures can differ very much (light/medium/dark brown bandoliers and gloves), I haven't seen this type of bandolier colour on any of my Kenner figures (I checked about 10).

Apart from the bandolier and a few obvious imperfections (which I won't mention to keep focus on paint differences ), there are no much differences.
Also the cape looks like a regular Kenner to me, making typical zip sounds on one side.


Are we looking at a POCH figure here?


Wolff mentions a "slightly more reddish...or more violet..." colour of the bandolier for the POCH variant in his limelight.
The bandolier seems lighter in colour than mine, however.

From : http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4350-anh-loose-figures-variants-bootlegs_wip

wbobafett wrote:

12. Tusken


The Tusken is not so easy to describe. I havent had the time yet to make research on the mold differences and to sort out the mold-familys, but eh.....its nearly the same on all. Its about 2-3 familys...my guess is two, but havent checked! On one family (about 6 coos) you can find hollow tubes and all 4 maincolors.
- 4 different main colors are known to the Tusken: orangish brown, lightbrown, darkbrown and very darkbrown. These can be found on nearly all coos (besides the large copyright HK ones)
- The 5th figure is the actual Poch variant. His brown town is a bit different to all known versions...its slightly more reddish...or more violet...definatley different.

Let's discuss!

ackbar100 wrote:

I think I have to do it.

There is not enough money in the world to pay Dr Dengar for his effort to keep this threat running.

You are doing an incredible job and your collection is really on the top. CONGRATULATIONS

Sinceraly

Thank you, much appreciated!!

Here you are my DS Droid. IN MY OPINION, it could be a poch one. It has bad application with the painting -see black shoulders-, big mark on the head -I have seen this mark in poch darth vaders before- and melt marks on the back. On the face it has 2 black lines only in the front. My kenner one has painted the fron and one side with 2 lines.

I hope this helps.

Thank you for posting these pics, Ricardo.

When we leave out the imperfections (like melt marks), I wonder which features might be distinctive for a possible POCH figure.

Also Kenner DSDs are notorious for their poor paint application. You only have to look at the paint and it is already gone.
So poor paint application is not so strong difference.


However I see one thing which my and your DSD have in common. A very light paint application on the eyes. The eyes look more brownish than black, because the silver metal shines through the black paint.

None of my Kenner DSDs have this. they all have very black eyes, though the paint on the shoulders is sometimes poor.

Maybe that means something....


@ All: Are there more Spanish DSDs out there?

You are right, Dr Dengar. Melt marks are not key in this but you have to consider the head mark as well seen it in other poch figures. Anyway, I have edited my post to avoid misunderstandings

Please, could you check if your 2 kenner figures have painted 2 lines in one side of the face????

I don't know if it is important but my kenner figure is most detailed in the face than the poch?? one. Is the same in your figures??

Hey Ricardo,

I made some compariosn shots.

In all pics, the middle (bottom) figure is the Death Star Droid from Spain. The other four are Kenner figures.

Do you or anybody else see differences with respect to the black painting in the face (eyes and mouth piece)?

Hi Dr Dengar,

it seems you are right in your comments. The only difference that I see in your pictures is the color eyes -kenner uses a dark black vs the other figure- looking the figure face to face.

Here I add new pictures of my DS droid kenner and the spanish figure -get it here-. They have the same color diferences in the eyes than your pictures and you can see the mark in the back neck as well much better. take a look to the left shoulder of the spanish figure. It is really a bad painting aplication or retouch.

Kenner on the left. Spanish figure on the ritht

[img][/img][img][/img]

I am not an expert by any means but aside from the lighter paint application there appears to be less detail definition in the cheek bump on both figures. I used your photos to show this common trait that both seem to have. The kenner one from Marco also has this but when coupled with the lighter paint application maybe this is something else that all have in common?

The lighter paint application of the eyes might be common for DSDs from Spain. Just based upon the two Spanish droids in this thread.

Still this is not a very clear difference, I can imagine weathered Kenner figures can have similar eyes. But off course you don't expect much differences for a figure which has only silver and black paint. No chocolate legs and black neck here.

Question remains whether my and Ricardo's droids can be linked to POCH 37/41 backs.

Is there a MOC known? We could check the lighter paint app of the eyes then..

Bryan, thanks for joining!

The Kenner figures in my pics have either COO#1 or #2.

Maybe these COOs are linked to different steel moulds, explaining the cheek bump differences? :scratch:

Dr Dengar wrote:

Is there a MOC known? We could check the lighter paint app of the eyes then..

Until last year it was still not proven that these MOC exists until 2 or 3 cardbacks have popped last year.

Thanks Mirco for telling.

Would love to see those 37/41 DSD cardbacks.

On www.starwarsspanishstuff.info the only DSD card which is shown is the Trilogo version.

Which makes me wonder, whether DSDs were released on ESB 45/47 backs and the ROTJ 65 backs?

I know a collector which has a POCH Death Star Droid in his limelight.

Maybe he can shed some more light on this topic.


Let's try to call him....

Dr Dengar wrote:

Bryan, thanks for joining!

The Kenner figures in my pics have either COO#1 or #2.

Maybe these COOs are linked to different steel moulds, explaining the cheek bump differences? :scratch:

Bryan, I checked the COOs of the figures in the picture above. Thanks for making the pic.

Going from the figure in the middle (bottom) and then counter clock wise they are

COO#1: Figure from Spain
COO#1: Kenner
COO#2: Kenner, with cheeck bump
COO#2: kenner, with cheeck bump
COO#1: Kenner, with cheeck bump

The cheek bump does not seem to be linked to a certain COO. The Spanish figure lacks this bump, but so is the Kenner figure right next to it.

Kenneth_B wrote:

Please notice that these three Poch Leia Hoth figures are identical (coo, paint etc) but NOT with the same coo as the sample in Wolff's Poch guide. Wolff's sample also has green eye brows in addition, while two of these have brown eyebrows. On the last of them the eye brows are almost gone. I now have had four identical samples of this Leia Hoth variant in my hands - all from different sourches/collections in Spain and, all have the same Poch characteristicas. So are there two different Poch Leia Hoth variants in existance, or are Wolff's and/or my Leia's mixed up figures with Kenner/Poch limbs? Impossible to say for sure of course but with four identical samples found by my hands, I have no doubts, that the Leia Hoth's in these pics are Poch produced.

Today I received a Leia Hoth from Spain which looks very similar as the three figures in Kenneth's For Sale thread.

I started looking for a Kenner Leia having the same COO #2, and was lucky to found one among the few which I own. Accidently it was my Leia Hoth childhood figure, my first Leia ever. As a child I never would have realised that those small letters on the legs could be of any importance one day.

Here are the comparison pics:

Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).



Compared to her Kenner sister, the Leia from Spain has:
- A face which is cast in a darker coloured ("tanned") plastic
- Pale coloured hips
- Greenish brown boots

The same differences can be observed for the Leia figures in Kenneth's pictures.

Below you see a comparison between the Kenner Leia, Spanish Leia, and two confirmed POCH figures which are described on Wolff´s site: Leia Hoth, and Luke Farmboy

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/leia-hoth/

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/luke-farmboy/

From left to right: 1. Leia (Kenner). 2. Leia (from Spain). 3. POCH Leia. 4. POCH Luke (not a DT saber BTW, just a broken tip ).



It is clear that the confirmed POCH Leia Hoth is different compared to the other Spanish Leia. They have different COOs (COO #1 vs #2) and corresponding moulds (rough vs smooth emblem is the most obvious difference), and different paint apps on the face.
But there are is also some striking similarity: Both Leias - one of which is a confirmed POCH figure- have the same greenish brown boots. Also the POCH Luke Farmboy has the same boot colours!!

The Spanish Leia also has some factory imperfections, which can be regarded as a bonus on top of the obvious paint differences compared to the Kenner figure. All together these are indications that this Spanish Leia might be a POCH variant as well, like the other confirmed POCH Leia.

I might be completely wrong here, so would like to hear your opinion about this Leia figure.

Would also be good to have pictures of POCH MOCs....