@Kenneth: I will post pics of my Dengar and Han Solo tomorrow so we can xompare them with your pics.

Are these POCH/PBP?

Leia Hoth.....





Obi Wan Kenobi....






Sorry for rubbish OWK photos, some info light sabre complete with fine point, marking GMFGI Made in Hong Kong 1977, Grey Hair, Wide Stance.

Walkie: Why do you think they might be POCH?

Usual story, the seller claims they are. Personally I think there talking BS. I'm told the leia hoth has the green metallic eyebrows, except there pretty worn.

Think I'll tell the seller to sling their hook.

Ben has not been discussed in this thread sofar, but I can make pics of my incomplete one (w/o cape) for you tomorrow.

Same for Leia Hoth.

I would also check Wolff's POCH guide for Leia Hoth, but it only shows a picture of his collection now?

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/my-collection/poch/

I hope it is a temporarily thing, it would be a shame to loose that valuable resource.

Looking forward to the Ben photos.

If you google "poch leia hoth" you can still get to wolff's guides however the main menu is like you say a static image only.

I updated yesterday's posts with new pics of the Imperial Commander and Bossk figures.

These pics are now made in natural daylight, so you see the differences much better.

Coming next: Leia Hoth, Ben, Han Solo, and Dengar, but first I will watch a movie.

For Walkie:
















Pictures of my POCH Leia Hoth.

The figure is lacking the right eye brow, and the left eye brow does not look so green to me.

Besides that, this Leia looks the same as the one described by Wolff: http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/leia-hoth/

Hope this helps.

Pictures of my Ben, which was sold as POCH:









Note the pale hands, pale head, and typical POCH imperfections (melt marks at the back, crack at the neck).

Would be good to have more pics of this figure from other sources, so we can more or less confirm the POCH identity of this figure.

Here is a MOC picture from http://www.starwarsspanishstuff.info

thank you

Kenneth_B wrote:

Let's get back to what was Marco's initial idea with this thread: Openly discussing Poch and PBP figures in order to gain knowledge for the community, which would also be beneficial for the variant collectors individually.

A figure which is not present in Wolff's Poch guide, is the Han original. I know, that Javier, Sergio etc know about this variant very well, but therfore some of the variant collectors maybe don't?

I have found four near identical samples from four different sourches in Spain, which all have the same features: "Fat" eye brows (like the Poch IC in this thread), pale hands, pale neck and small belt buckle. Some of them also have small melt marks on the butt/back. The Poch Han's often seem to have a crack in th neck - like many other Poch and PBP produced figures.. Here are some pics of one of them:











To me this is a confirmed Poch Han variant. Same coo (all four), some unique features in the paint, meltmarks etc. So no mixed up figure here in my opinion. There could be more Poch Han Solo variants of course? I have another interesting Han purchased in Spain, but that figure is more likely to be mixed up. But I cannot say that for sure of course..? I'll post some pics soon!

Pictures of my supposed POCH Han Solo from Spain:









Based upon Kenneth's description:

"Fat" eye brows: CHECK
Pale hands: CHECK
Pale neck: CHECK
Small belt buckle: CHECK
COO#1: CHECK

This seems to be a similar type of figure as you posted, Kenneth.


BTW: The MOC Han Solo on www.starwarsspanishstuff.info shares many of the same characteristics ("fat" eye brows, pale hands, pale neck). Only the belt buckle seems bigger here.

EDIT: Some incoming information from Wolff:

The figure on this 37C card is a PBP Han (not a POCH Han). Only the PBP Han has big beltbuckle!!

Kenneth_B wrote:

Another figure which is not yet present in Wolff's Poch guide is Dengar. Here is a sample, which could either be 100 % Poch or mixed up? I have found two identical samples in Spain, which both have this "double" MIHK coo. This could indicate, that this Dengar figure has mixed up Kenner/Poch limbs, which is however not certain at all. This could also be one Poch Dengar variant out of two or more?

Here are some pics (please notice the "acne" face)











The other sample has more obvious meltmarks in the butt area. Any opinions guys?

I have one Dengar figure which came from Spain.










Comparison pics were made with a Kenner Dengar having the same COO (COO#1). The Spanish figure is on the right in all pics.











Compared to a Kenner figure, the Dengar from Spain has:

- A greenish yellow instead of flesh colour face
- Light instead of dark purple paint on body and limbs
- Small instead of big purple "dots" on the head bandage
- Darker reddish brown backpack
- A damaged COO mould on the right leg: "DE IN HONG KONG" in stead of "MADE IN HONG KONG". The same can be seen on Kenneth's mixed up figure (see Kenneth's pic below).
- Typical POCH imperfections: meltmarks (at the bottom), crack (at the bottom).

@Dr Dengar....another POCH Han Solo, given vampire make-over?



Note the large belt buckle like yours, this itemis currently up for sale on the net.

I received a new Boba Fett from a Spanish childhood collection (so it is not the figure which was for sale on ebay or RS recently). The figure looks very similar to another Fett from Spain, which was posted before, but is in much better condition.

To streamline the discussion, allow me to repeat some previous posts. Hope I don't bother you, otherwise just skipp them.

Dr Dengar wrote:

Interesting, thanks for sharing here!

I might have a similar "Bubble" Fett. I made some comparison pics with a Kenner figure having the same COO #2.

"Bubble" Fett is on the right in the pics.

















Differences compared to the Kenner figure:

• Lighter green paint on the chest armour
  
• A bit brighter red wrist armour
  
• Lighter brown belt
  
• Left pouch unpainted, no paint residue to be seen (factory error?)
  
• More vibrant red rocket, it can be moved out about 1 mm (probably an artefact because a kid tried to get it out)
  
• Small deformation where the rocket tips starts (see close-up)
  
• Big meltmarks at the back of the rocket holder. I wonder whether these are factory made. Maybe just some evil little girl who tried to iron her brother's poor Boba once.
  
• Little “bubbles” in the plastic (not paint!!) at the top of the right leg (at the back)
  
• Did I miss anything?

I bought this figure from a Spanish seller.

Are there more examples of this Fett around in collections....

Dr Dengar wrote:

So my best guess at the moment is that these bubbles are not a POCH characteristic.
As AJ already mentioned, these small bubbles just seem to occur sometimes on random places on the limbs. Maybe it has something to do with the process conditions when the limbs were cast? (type of plastic used, cooling off too slow/fast?,....)

Sofar the bubbles seem to be linked with COO #2, I have no clue why? :scratch:

Any other thoughts?



Anyway, we probably will have to look for other traits (meltmarks, painting, welding cracks) when looking for a POCH Boba fett. To be continued....

orangpendek wrote:

In the injection molding process bubbles form when the injection temperature is too high, when there's too much moisture in the material or when the cooling rate isn't uniform .
Melt marks or "ejector marks" can appear when the ejection force is set too high or by removing the part from the mold before it has properly cooled down. Dropping it on a surface while still hot or using a tool to remove the part from the mold will leave a mark.
Looks like where ever the bubble fett was produced they had some problems finding the correct setting for their injection molding machine.
This is not the only figure where production flaws match up with a certain coo, to this day every discolored jawa i have seen has a#1 or #2 coo and i can only find them in 2 countries.
I got my fett from a seller in holland, crealkilla and pattejan got theirs in the Uk and Dr. D found his in Spain, has anybody got an example from the US or is this a strictly european production flaw?

Dr Dengar wrote:

crealkilla wrote:

So is there 2 version for POCH Fett out there :scratch:

I simply don't know, I wish I did.

The reason to set up this thread was to get a better understanding of POCH/PBP figures with the help of community input. Right now we are still lacking behind. Don't worry we will catch up.

I posted pics of a Fett with a small (c) HK COO two weeks ago. I thought he might be POCH, cause of the colour differences, some marks, and small bubbles. From the posted pics of other "Bubble Fetts" we learned that at least these bubbles are not POCH characteristics. But maybe the other characteristics (colour scheme, melt marks) still are. We make small baby steps here, but that's OK, nobody is in a hurry.

I expect to receive a similar “Bubble Fet” from Spain in my mail box within the next few days. He has clear melt marks on the back, bubbles and a very sloppy paint job. I will compare him to my other, maybe we can draw some conclusions from it and make one more little step.

I also saw the POCH Fett on ebay. I hadn’t noticed it had the big (c) HK COO, till you mentioned so. So who knows maybe there are indeed two Fett POCHs are around? The differences to a Kenner Fett seem to be very subtle here.

In the pictures below you see from left to right:

• Kenner Boba Fett, COO #2
  
• Boba Fett #1 from Spain, COO #2
  
• Boba Fett #2 from Spain, COO #2

The two Fetts from Spain share similar characteristics compared to the Kenner Fett:

• Visor: Brighter red
  
• Chest armour: Lighter green. EDIT: This is the most obvious difference when holding the figures in hand. Difficult to grasp by camera however.
  
• Right wrist armour: Brighter red
  
• Left wrist armour, shoulder armour, knee armour: lighter orange
  
• Left and right belt pouches: Glossy and darker brown. Note: Fett#1 has the left pouch unpainted, probably a paint error.
  
• Backpack: Lighter purple paint used.
  
• Sloppy paint job, with spots of yellow and purple paint at different positions

Interestingly Spanish Fetts #1 and #2 (so the middle and right figure) were painted using the same spray masks, indicating they were produced in the same factory. You can see this very well when looking at the right belt pouch. The brown paint residues crossing the border of the pouches at the bottom are almost the same in extent and shape.

Further non paint characteristics for the Fetts from Spain:

• #1, #2:Small bubbles at the back of the legs
  
• #1: Small deformation where the rocket tips starts (see close-up)
  
• #1: Big meltmarks at the back of the rocket holder. Still wondering whether these are factory made.
  
• #2: Meltmarks at some psotions, for instance at the bottom right and left corners of the backpack (close to the two "screw" like elements, just below where the purple starts), at the far bottom of the backpack (the two "connector pins"), at the back close to the left shoulder.
  
• #2: Plastic extrusions at the bottom of the feet
  
  

So IMO definitely some different paint applications here compared to a Kenner Fett.
In addition some plastic characteristics which you happen to see often with POCH figure. I do not count the bubbles, as they show up at non Spanish figures with COO #2 as well, as shown earlier by pics from other members in this thread.

Might we looking at two POCH Fetts here?

Just a few pics of Vaders, obtained from two Spanish childhood collections.

All have “GMFGI 1977 Hong Kong” COOs, with small differences, probably all belonging to the same COO family (and thus cast from the same type of steel mould).
I forgot to take pics of the COOs.

From left to right:

#1 Kenner (Reference)

#2 Figure from Spain.
- Cape is made of unique material, soft feeling, no zipping sound.
- Meltmarks
- Plastic extrusion at the bottom
- Break point at the back of the helmet (don’t know if this means something, probably this can happen with Kenner figures as well?)

#3 Figure from Spain,
- Having cape with look and feel of regular Kenner cape.
- Meltmarks
- Plastic extrusion at the bottom
- Different paint apps on the chest plate, with a different red paint!! (might this be unique compared to Kenner figures?)

#4 Figure from Spain
- Having cape with look and feel of regular Kenner cape.
- Meltmarks,
- Break point at the back of the helmet (see remark above)
-
#5 Figure from Spain
- Came without a cape
- Meltmarks
- Head is glued








Note that all the Vaders from Spain have their heads slightly tilted compared to the Kenner version.

While there is vader discussion going on i thought i'd add this little known spanish vader variant and my thoughts on him.

Those old skool variant collectors that are around will remember Uli's cool little pbp guide he did a few years ago. Now, in it, he showed
a spanish vader with unique coo that he had managed to find three examples of only in spain and believed it to be an unconfirmed
pbp variant.

Now, in the many years of having many many vader coo's pass through my hands i have never found or seen an identical coo to
Uli's example until recently, i managed to get one in a spanish lot with other pbp figures.

Check out the pictures - the coo is totally unique. The 'H' remains and the rest is blobbed out, NOT scarred out like other vader coo's.

The cape has the little factory 'cut' or 'step' in it like other no coo spanish and european vaders. The saber is more orange in colour like
others i have seen on spanish figures also.

Tell me if anyone else also has this vader coo and moreso was it acquired in spain.

Now i have one in hand to compare to Uli's example i truly beleive in a unique to pbp variant and not found anywhere else.

Tell me what you think...

I've not knowingly bought any POCH/PBP Vaders, but I had a look through my loose variants (all purchased in he UK).
I have two with the ejector pin marks on the back of the Helmet.
[img][/img]
The figure on the left has a slightly softer cape (but not as soft as my 'Made In Taiwan' example) which does not 'zip'. The cape also has square cut corners and is shorter. The head of the figure is made of a glossier plastic & is poorly cast with creases & a little bit of excess flashing.
The one on the right has a Kenner cape and saber & I believe the figure is also Kenner.

Head shots of figure on the left.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

Kenner cape on the right.
[img][/img]

COO for figure on the left.
[img][/img]

COO for figure on the right.
[img][/img]

How does the one on the left compare to your 'Spanish' examples Marco?

Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting!

Can you make some pics of the figure without the cape pls?

Cheers

They haven't come out as well as I would have liked, but here are some extra pics of the vader with the poorly molded head.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

Close up of chest paint. The buttons each side of the belt buckle are less detailed than my other Vaders.
[img][/img]

EDIT: If it is of interest / relevance, I have found a Vader with the same coo as the one posted above, but the head & body were cast from a different mold (no ejector pin mark on helmet & no defined buttocks). The plastic it's made from is less glossy, like a 'standard' Kenner figure. I can try & take comparrison pics. if it helps?

Also, is the tilt to the head that you have observed caused by some extra plastic on one side of the neck (visible from the back)?

Thanks a lot of your pics, Steve!

Let me make some additional pics next weekend.

Alos, who can help Lee with his question?

I like to show you an Yoda bought from a Spanish collector. The figure has COO#3 but looks different from Kenner and Ledy figures having this COO#3.

The Kenner COO#3 figure has an brownish green (olive) head (due to discolouration) and dark green paint on arms and feet.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4685-yoda-brownish-green-head-transformant-with-hong-kong-coo3

The Ledy COO#3 has normal green skin tone and orange pupils.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2135p720-the-lili-ledy-discussion-thread#Yoda

This Spanish Yoda however has an apple green skin. Similar like the Yoda which was released on US POTF cards. These US figures have COO#2 though.

Please have a look at the pics below:

Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).



Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).



Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).



Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).



Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).



Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).



Apple Green Yodas. From left to right: COO #2 (Kenner), COO #3 (from Spain), COO #2 (Kenner).




Apple Green Yoda: COO #3 (from Spain).




Apple Green Yoda: COO #3 (from Spain).



To me it seems that the combination of this apple green skin with this COO (i.e. COO#3) is unique for this Spanish figure. (The apple green POTF Yodas have COO#2).

Besides the figure has some poor quality charactersitics which we also encounter a lot on POCH figures (see pic):

• Bad sonic welding
  
• Plastic extrusions (ear, bottom)
  
• Melt marks

I didn't have a close look at the accessories. I included a pic of the cane, belt, and snake. I forgot to take a pic of the cape, but at first glance I see nothing special about it.

Interestingly, this figure has belt strings which are divergent instead of close together. Not what you would expect for a steelmould with COO#3. I discussed this with Wolff and we both agreed this figure must have a mixed welded torso, with a back and front originating from different moulds.

This mixing up of parts from different moulds resulting in hybrid figures is not uncommon for POCH figures.

So what do you think, taking all toghether (unique paint apps, poor quality characteristics, mixed torso, Spanish origin), could this be a POCH Yoda?

Hi guys, looking for some help with 2 Darth Vaders i have. I have always considered both to be factory error/defect figures, but have i been reading this discussion and realised that both the figures have many similarities to the Vaders being discused here. Can you guys have a look through the album below and let me know what you think. Poor molded head, cracked torso, no definition to belt buttons, head tilted forward, excess flashing, poor sonic welding, COO and capes match the description cantina_patron gave on his capes. Are these PBP/POCH Vaders?



Have a look through the album for many more detailed photos of both these Vaders.
Figure on left is marked #1 and has the cracked torso, much shorter than any Vader i have seen. The torso is very out of the ordinary and looks like it has melted/shrunk.
Figure on the right is marked #2 and has a very poor molded head.

The only thing i cant see/find on these two figures is any melt marks.

https://s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z461/M4K3R1/PBP%20POCH/

Thanks for any help.

Oscar.

PBP Lando Calrissian (White Smile/Brown Neck)

Both figures share the mould defect on the left shoulder (visible from rear), however COO's, spray masks, brown and black paints are different.

COO #8 (from Spain)
* Neck over painted, covers inside on collar
* Dark Grey Eyes
* Flash on right foot
* Scarred COO with "H"
* Curved spray mask on back of head
* Ears Visible
* Dark brown painted hands
* Short Dark Grey Cape (zips on one side)

COO #9 (from UK)
* Neck under painted, blue visable on right
* Black Eyes
* Scarred COO with partial "G"
* Straight spray mask on back of head
* Melt marks above belt
* Poor paint on arms (light blue?)
* Left Ear sprayed
* Light brown painted hands
* Long Light Grey Cape (zips on one side)


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


Centre: COO #8 (from Spain).


Centre: COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


Centre: COO #9 (from UK).


Centre: COO #8 (from Spain).


Centre: COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).


From left to right: COO #8 (from Spain), COO #9 (from UK).

Thanks a lot for the detailed comparison of the two scarred out Landos.

My guess is that both figures were produced by PBP. Some of the small differences (for instance colour of the eyes and hands) might indicate batch-to-batch variations. Other small differences (ears, back of the hair) might indeed indicate different used spray masks.

I know it sounds weird, but maybe you can smell both figures. PBP figures have this typical chemical smell.

Both figures could end up on different cards, PBP or other European?

Source: http://www.starwarsspanishstuff.info


What do others think?

I'll wait till my cold has cleared up