Has anybody seen these new 2nd gen Hungarian bootleg figures? They have slightly different weapons, real crisp blister and cardback?

I picked up one from Robert (HUngarian seller) on ebay, he also sells on RS. When it arrived my first thought screamed fake. Its just too nice to be true.

I know a couple have been sold and limelighted on RS.

Wondering if any of you have one and your thoughts...

I know, a pic is worth a thousand words...

Seth

Do you have a link? Funny I just Emailed Robert about a loose Hungarian he is selling

I got his sale list also, somebody snagged the complete Luke 2 minutes after I received his email. All of the loose figs look legit.

The carded figure is what concerns me. The figure itself is legit, however the blister and cardback scream to me. I will "Try" to get a good pic tonight.

Hey Seth.

Yeah, those "2nd series" cards, bubbles and weapons are suspect. While I also believe the figures to be legit, the other components seem custom to me and others. There is a collector in Hungary, I won't mention his name, but I asked him to join the discussion in this thread a few months back because he thinks the 2nd series was all legit including the odd cards, bubbles, and weapons, but he has yet to post. I picked up that painted yoda from Robi from that list that was sent out. Robert has always been an honest person in my dealings with him btw.

I look forward to more discussion on this topic.

Andy A

GanjaFett wrote:

Hey Seth.

Yeah, those "2nd series" cards, bubbles and weapons are suspect. While I also believe the figures to be legit, the other components seem custom to me and others. There is a collector in Hungary, I won't mention his name, but I asked him to join the discussion in this thread a few months back because he thinks the 2nd series was all legit including the odd cards, bubbles, and weapons, but he has yet to post. I picked up that painted yoda from Robi from that list that was sent out. Robert has always been an honest person in my dealings with him btw.

I look forward to more discussion on this topic.

Andy A

Hi Andy,
I would not hesitate to deal with Robert and trust him fully with past and future purchases. When I inquired about the card he put me in touch with the original seller to discuss in detail. The card and blister are much newer and really heavy duty compared to the old style. I will try to get some good pics, but as the past dictates, I am not the best when it comes to supplying photos.

Yeah, I don't think I believe in "2nd Gen" hungarian stuff... I bought a carded Wicket a couple of years ago that looked good (I thought). That is, a real figure resealed in a fake card... but the figure once opened was completely fabricated. Different material plastics, lesser quality finish of the mold seals. It was custom from top to bottom.

If I'd kept it, I'd show it for comparison... but my point is - buying "real" figures on questionable cards is a gamble at best.

jedge2000 wrote:

Yeah, I don't think I believe in "2nd Gen" hungarian stuff... I bought a carded Wicket a couple of years ago that looked good (I thought). That is, a real figure resealed in a fake card... but the figure once opened was completely fabricated. Different material plastics, lesser quality finish of the mold seals. It was custom from top to bottom.

If I'd kept it, I'd show it for comparison... but my point is - buying "real" figures on questionable cards is a gamble at best.

Was that Wicket you sold on Ebay a few years back?

Steven, of course not!

I might have been less than truly diligent with my quality checking before (I'm looking at you Andy, Wolff) but I wouldn't knowingly pass junk off to the group!!

Surprised you'd ask.

It went straight in the trash... with some swearing... and swearing OFF buying questionable stuff again.

jedge2000 wrote:

Steven, of course not!

I might have been less than truly diligent with my quality checking before (I'm looking at you Andy, Wolff) but I wouldn't knowingly pass junk off to the group!!

Surprised you'd ask.

It went straight in the trash... with some swearing... and swearing OFF buying questionable stuff again.

Haha! Yeah, those glued limbs did pass quality control on my order . No hard feelings, it's still one of my favorite unarts

I also wish you had saved the fake wicket Jason, it's nice to have those documented.

jedge2000 wrote:

Steven, of course not!

I might have been less than truly diligent with my quality checking before (I'm looking at you Andy, Wolff) but I wouldn't knowingly pass junk off to the group!!

Surprised you'd ask.

It went straight in the trash... with some swearing... and swearing OFF buying questionable stuff again.

Sorry Jason, I didn't mean knowingly. I just remember you had several MOC Hungarian figures on Ebay several years ago, thought maybe you wasn't aware of it at the time. I have pics saved from those auctions, just didn't know if you needed one if it was on there that's all. Didn't mean to confuse you buddy. Too bad you didn't keep it for reference though but I can't blame you for pitching it.

I have a few auctions saved that had ligitamate figures on "recards", haven't heard anything about retooled figures though, that's interesting, and unfortunate.

have you guys found places other than ebay and random flea market stuff where this stuff can be found reliably? Like maybe sketchy import stores or overseas websites? I'm just curious how most people find their stuff. (I know folks trade a lot but i'm new to bootlegs and don't have much that is desirable... always looking for new sources.)

Hi,

I cannot see any pics of the MOC figure you all are talking about. I also know Robert and I know he put a few loose Hungarians up for sale on RS yesterday, but I know about no MOC for sale. I am happy to discuss further the 2nd generation topic, but I need to see that questionable MOC.

We need to differentiate between these lines anyway:

1. There are the obviously fakes out there, where graphs are really different, blister is high, figures are remolded or "bootleged" Kenners. Certainly one Hungarian source and 3 or 4 international. Recently a lot of 5 or six appeared on eBay or little bit back a leia and a fett also discussed on RS.

2. There are the late production items we all consider legit, these examples are the brown and orange cardbacks, which are shinier, better quality feel, or the cardbacks with name tags. You can see these on theswca.com To me these figures show there was actually product development done in the 1st generation of figures, which was already an improved line from the pig-nose cardbacks.

3. There is a really convincing set we call the 2nd generation. Good graphics, only tiny if any difference, layered print, old cardboards varying in thickness, vivid colors. The figures and mostly the weapons look 100% ok, blister is slightly differently textured, but could be just a "different shipment". There are interesting variations in weapons and there is a small wicket blister as well. If you check out the last MOC display in this video, you will see what I mean about vivid colours: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXoJ4DOYJrI

I also own many of the 2nd generation, and I am not saying I am absolutely sure they are ok, but I have no evidence to support they are not. I have them from 4 different Hungarian sources. They are so sophisticated and were produced in such detail. Variations, production errors are so convincing, that it is hard to beleive someone has invented all these.


Best regards,

Andras

GanjaFett wrote:

Hey Seth.

Yeah, those "2nd series" cards, bubbles and weapons are suspect. While I also believe the figures to be legit, the other components seem custom to me and others. There is a collector in Hungary, I won't mention his name, but I asked him to join the discussion in this thread a few months back because he thinks the 2nd series was all legit including the odd cards, bubbles, and weapons, but he has yet to post. I picked up that painted yoda from Robi from that list that was sent out. Robert has always been an honest person in my dealings with him btw.

I look forward to more discussion on this topic.

Andy A

jedibabu wrote:

....
1. There are the obviously fakes out there, where graphs are really different, blister is high, figures are remolded or "bootleged" Kenners. Certainly one Hungarian source and 3 or 4 international. Recently a lot of 5 or six appeared on eBay or little bit back a leia and a fett also discussed on RS.
....

I saw this lot of 6 and even had them in hand. (I was asked for my expertise on those from a firend who bought those)

Besides the obvious faked cards and blisters I can tell you that the figures are also recasted. They are not injection molded. They have obvious and lots of small "bubbles" on the surface. It should be easy to recognize them in hand!

Sadly I didnt made any pictures....I was so shocked about them beeing faked completly....I cannot even remeber if it was a Kenner or a hungarian recast, but as stated above these are casted, not injection molded!

Here are the pictures of that fake lot. Went for 299EUR. Shame.

jedibabu wrote:

Here are the pictures of that fake lot. Went for 299EUR. Shame.

No worries...it was refunded and sent back

I'm still not convinced I would know the difference. thanks to all you guys for offering up so much great info and such excellent documentation.

Andras, glad to see you join the discussion. Would it be too much trouble to post good pictures of any of your collection that you believe to be 2nd series.

Wolff, I would have loved to see close up pictures of the fake Hungarian figures. It seems there's been an influx of fakes lately. Usually I watch any Hungarians auctions, I must have missed this one.

Andy A

boring-fett wrote:

have you guys found places other than ebay and random flea market stuff where this stuff can be found reliably? Like maybe sketchy import stores or overseas websites? I'm just curious how most people find their stuff. (I know folks trade a lot but i'm new to bootlegs and don't have much that is desirable... always looking for new sources.)

Hey dude

Looking at the classifieds on the forums, eBay, making friends and contacts. That's usually the way you come across the good ones. It's tough sometimes to find what you're looking for, but I would suggest saving your money and when somebody's selling, you're ready

Nice to see some rookies around the bootleg clubhouse.

Andy A

GanjaFett wrote:

boring-fett wrote:

have you guys found places other than ebay and random flea market stuff where this stuff can be found reliably? Like maybe sketchy import stores or overseas websites? I'm just curious how most people find their stuff. (I know folks trade a lot but i'm new to bootlegs and don't have much that is desirable... always looking for new sources.)

Hey dude

Looking at the classifieds on the forums, eBay, making friends and contacts. That's usually the way you come across the good ones. It's tough sometimes to find what you're looking for, but I would suggest saving your money and when somebody's selling, you're ready

Nice to see some rookies around the bootleg clubhouse.

Andy A

Lol I was gonna say check my FS in few minutes. Putting my Leia up

Will come with a set made of one of my 2nd gens.

GanjaFett wrote:

Andras, glad to see you join the discussion. Would it be too much trouble to post good pictures of any of your collection that you believe to be 2nd series.

Wolff, I would have loved to see close up pictures of the fake Hungarian figures. It seems there's been an influx of fakes lately. Usually I watch any Hungarians auctions, I must have missed this one.

Andy A

Thanks guys - great advice. I have to recover from buying so many Sucklord figures this year... Then I'm game.

Dear All,

I have prepared for your expert eyes a set of pictures from my green card second generation MOC Hungarian Wicket. You can see the print, texture and image very resembling the 1st generation. I have made close-ups so you can see details of the graphics and the fonts. The figure to me seams 100% legit, missing spear though, which I see in many of the second generation, but could have simply fallen out. The bubble as previously said, has a slightly different texture, as if there were veins on the surface. The bubble fits perfectly, figure stands still. Bubble has a dent on the left bottom corner. Why I choose this one to display is to show you a unique production error, which also strengthens my belief these figures could actually be real deal, it is stapled on a double card. In production two identical green cards were stapled together with the figure and the blister.

For your kind consideration, and awaiting opinions.

Best regards,

Andras

sorry but if you ask me, the cardback is FAKE. Compare the typography to known authentic examples- its different!! why should they change ut bery very slightly? its so easy to make a fake cardback with a dtandard computer and printer. i highly foubt sometjing like a 2nd generation hingarian bootleg exists. thanks, mike

Dear Mike,

Many thanks for the reply. I would also very much like to have clarity on these figures, but please elaborate more on what you see different in the typography. I have seen various legit cards with bolder or less bold font prints. It has something to do with the technology. The picture can also get very dark or very grey and sometimes the base colour is visible sometimes not.

You mention the question why wold there be any change. I have already pointed to some late legit 1st generation items, like the name tag Leias, were there was change and strive for improvement. I could imagine they wanted to redo the cardback at some point and that made some things change on it. Also it is very well known in socialist Hungary that the supply of material was very limited, hence cardback quality, thickness, paint colour, technology could have changed over time.

Best regards,

Andras

Bluestars wrote:

sorry but if you ask me, the cardback is FAKE. Compare the typography to known authentic examples- its different!! why should they change ut bery very slightly? its so easy to make a fake cardback with a dtandard computer and printer. i highly foubt sometjing like a 2nd generation hingarian bootleg exists. thanks, mike

I've seen these listed for a few years now, but without one in hand to examine, it's really hard to determine. The type font is definitely different. I'd have to check out the cards themselves to see if they're actually printed like the ones we know to be real, or if they're just inkjet made crap glued to cardstock. The figures definitely look like the real thing(from a distance), if they're cast from real ones or just bad plastic from the real molds....

I'd buy a few if the price was realistic, just to see what they really are....


Cheers
Joe