| THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE | |
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General Kahn Force Addict
Posts : 3099 Join date : 2011-04-10 Age : 45 Location : England
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm | |
| Right folks, today I present to you a ...... Bespin Luke Obviously I would like your opinions on this Bespin Luke if you would be so kind. I had a word with Wolff about this to see what he thought and I think the general thought is that it could be a 'mixed up' figure. Either way I thought I'd share him with you guys to see what you think. First of all a little back story, I've actually had this figure for about 3 years and bought him initially as a ginger Bespin Luke with the large HK COO for the reason he had a 'short shot' hand and I thought he would be nice for my focus as a factory error type figure. When he arrived I did think he looked a little different, but wasn't really familiar with Poch/PBP stuff and alo my research wasn't what it is now and he has kind of remained out of the main focus because I classed him as a factory error, however a sales post by Kenneth B got me thinking differently, and after sorting through my Luke's the other day I started thinking a few things. Bear in mind I'm still missing the brown haired HK Large Poch Bespin uke from my collection (anyone got one for sale?????) and this really got me thinking. Now first of all, I know it's not that figure but I'd like your opinions all the same. I'll talk you through it in a comparrison way to the actual Ginger HK large Luke generally regarded as the Palitoy variant. First up, here's the actual figure: Secondly, a head comparison, now the 'Palitoy' version has a vibrant ginger hair and always has thin black eye prints. This figure (right) has lighter ginger hair and brown bold eye prints. Next is the hands, Now the 'Palitoy' version always has a kind of dull flesh tone which is probably the best flesh paint used on any Bespin Luke, this one is notably paler (bottom) Now the boots, it's important to note that the 'Palitoy' ginger Luke has brown boot's, not tan or sienna, this colour is unique to this figure and they ALL have it. The figure in question however has tan boot's and the paint is rather poorly applied with several over-lapping splashes onto the legs and a couple of thin spots. There is also some extra flashing not usually present on the stanrad figures. Next up, melt marks? There is definately some marks on the back, but it's hard to tell wether they are melt marks or just damage, however the belt on the back of the torso and the parts of the belt which are on the actual legs (left leg in particular) show marks. There are also other marks around the edge of the leg not shown in the pic (sorry) Finally is the COO, HK large Another thing is the sonic weld on the crouch is poor and slightly open (I forgot to take a pic of this and am away at th moment, but when I return next week I will update the post if required) Cheers for looking, any thought? |
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flycasual Imperial Lieutenant
Posts : 160 Join date : 2012-04-06
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:49 pm | |
| - Dr Dengar wrote:
- @FC: Can you check your Rebel Soldier for the absence of white paint on top of the legs pls? Just curious whether you found a Kenner or POCH figure in the UK.
Here you go: |
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Thargoil Imperial Commander
Posts : 404 Join date : 2012-07-28 Age : 48 Location : The Netherlands
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:14 pm | |
| Received a PBP stormtrooper today and thought it would be nice to make a small comparison picture with LL. (PBP helmet looks like Chewie got his hands on it and not yet 100% sure about the blaster, still happy to add this boy ( for less than E15,-) |
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psybertech TIG Benefactor
Posts : 2906 Join date : 2013-01-30 Age : 51 Location : TX
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:52 pm | |
| Just wanted to share this here as well. POCH Leia Bespin. I hope to help document more on her soon with info on the appropriate cape (which I don't have yet), blaster (ditto) and I would love to figure out the link between her and the Ledy Blonde LB. Anyway, for now, here are my images of my latest Leia Bespin! (extra large image here) cheers! |
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Kenneth_B Imperial Lieutenant
Posts : 257 Join date : 2010-12-06 Age : 47 Location : Amager, Denmark
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:54 am | |
| Beautiful Poch Leia Bespin Jay! It feels like, that I have seen her before though..? |
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psybertech TIG Benefactor
Posts : 2906 Join date : 2013-01-30 Age : 51 Location : TX
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:12 am | |
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Dr Dengar TIG Benefactor
Posts : 7048 Join date : 2010-05-07 Age : 53 Location : The Netherlands
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:44 pm | |
| Thanks guys for sharing your pics of 2-1B (Ackbar), Luke Bespin (Alex), Stormtrooper (Fred), Rebel Soldier (Flycasual), and Leia Bespin/AT AT Driver (Jay). I will promise to share some pics of these figures when making new posts in this thread. Today I would like to show you two PBP Bossk figures. I got Bossk on the right about a year ago (kudos to Javi ), and received the Bossk on the left last week, from a Spanish childhood collection. Though both figures have a lot in common (also the typical PBP smell), but there are also some noteworthy differences:
- COO: Both figures have COO#4 but differ slightly: '1980 LFL' vs '1980 LFL.' (with a dot at the end). In general I am not that interested in these small variations within one COO type, as they merely indicate different steel moulds which were used in parallel, according to Wolff's theory. But hey it is always cool to discover these small differences. Probably it has been described somewhere else before.
- Lips: Both PBP Bossk seem to have played with their mom’s lipstick causing those typical fat lips.
The paint mask for the lips on the right figure seems to be shifted a bit downwards compared to the left figure.
- Eyes: The black pupils of the right Bossk figure are bigger.
Probably the pupils on both figures are hand painted, which might explain the difference?
All in all we are probably just looking at small batch to batch (or figure to figure) paint variations here. Interesting nevertheless. Please share pics of your PBP Bossk figures, so we can have a good look at the small variations which are out there. Thanks for reading Cheers Marco |
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walkie Senior Developer
Posts : 5086 Join date : 2012-11-05 Age : 48 Location : UK
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General Kahn Force Addict
Posts : 3099 Join date : 2011-04-10 Age : 45 Location : England
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:12 am | |
| Hi folks, Sorry to again present another Bespin Luke here, but hey, it's what I do. Just thought this was interesting and a follow up to the one I posted about two pages back. It's the choclate boots Luke and is almost identical to the other, even down to the right hands pink and the left hand pale and almost identical melt marks. New one on the right: It's also worthy of a mention that although the eye print on this whole range of Bespin Luke figures, this particular one is quite bold though, similar to this carded example: This carded example is the caramel boots version though. |
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Dr Dengar TIG Benefactor
Posts : 7048 Join date : 2010-05-07 Age : 53 Location : The Netherlands
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:41 pm | |
| Comparing rare figures via pics from screen is good, comparing and discussing them in real life with a fellow collector is even better and much more fun. So that's why Kenneth and I brought some presumed POCH figures to CE2. Unfortunately Wolff could not attend, as he had to leave on Sunday. This way we could confirm that some of our figures (e.g. R5, 2-1B, Dengar, Ugnaught,..) have the same unique paint applications. These figures all originated from Spanish (childhood) collections and in addition often had these typical factory imperfections (cracks, meltmarks), strengthening us in the belief that these are POCH figures indeed. Solid proof should come from MOCs off course. You will probably hear more about these figures in this thread one day. Stay tuned.
Schnitzel Restaurant High Security POCH Resarch Facility at Celebration Europe 2.
Two presumed POCH R5 figures.
Three presumed POCH Dengars.
Thank you Kenneth, it was great meeting you, let's have a follow up meeting in Denmark or The Netherlands soon. |
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Kenneth_B Imperial Lieutenant
Posts : 257 Join date : 2010-12-06 Age : 47 Location : Amager, Denmark
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:00 pm | |
| Hey Marco, It was a true pleasure meeting you/hanging out with you at CE2! I'm sure, that our next meeting will be within a limited amount of time, since flight tickets to the Netherlands/Denmark are affordable for the both of us! Comparing the Poch figures together with you was great! I got a lot of unanswered Poch answers out of our meeting, and hopefully you did too! BTW I'm looking a bit angry at the pic, but it must be a result of extreme concentration LOL. You're doing a brilliant job with the pics and descriptions from CE2! Tomorrow I'll post some pics of mine from CE2 - on Lee's request some of my purchases from the event also. Kenneth |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:41 am | |
| I bought this bossk at CEII in one of those bargain bin boxes, I thought it was a bit interesting figure to the left figure to the bottom figure to the right It looks a bit similar to the bought in spain that marco linked earlier. What I've noticed so far is that it is glossier in the face then some other bossks, the coo is larger. And it have two stripes painted on the shoulders where the kenner shown have only 1. Seems to have less black painted below red neck thing. And a slight different red. (Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, I didn't see it in the bossks posts) Borrowing a pic |
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Dr Dengar TIG Benefactor
Posts : 7048 Join date : 2010-05-07 Age : 53 Location : The Netherlands
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:07 pm | |
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Dr Dengar TIG Benefactor
Posts : 7048 Join date : 2010-05-07 Age : 53 Location : The Netherlands
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:15 pm | |
| Great find, Claes! Your Bossk seems to be the same figure as the one which I discussed before in this thread: Bossk (Post #3) Meanwhile I have found two of these Bossk figures in Spanish collections. Sure he looks different compared to his Kenner counterpart. I bet he is Spanish produced. Other opinions? |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:53 pm | |
| I have no clue what it is, if it's from spain that would be fun. I like those bargain bins, I saw a lot of nice variants like a bunch of flesh faces but couldn't buy everything I saw. There where acctually two of those bossks in that bin, looked identical except I didn't check the coo on both. I ended up taking that one because it was one I didn't have before and it looked rather odd. Never seen a discolered bossk before and I've had a bunch. |
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javiswspain Grand Moff
Posts : 939 Join date : 2010-03-20 Age : 48
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:31 pm | |
| - Rawlin wrote:
figure to the right
I could be wrong but, bassed in my experience on the searching of Poch figures, the figures i have found so far, the carded POCH Bossks examples known to exist and-finally- looking at your pits, i would say that the Bossk shown in your pict IS NOT A POCH FIGURE. I have seen and found many of those Kenner "faded limbs" Bossks.On the other hand i have never found one like the one shown in your picts I have one in my own Kenner collection, maybe a little less faded limbs... Here you are a couple of picts compared with the "real" POCH Bossk , the same shown by Marco Daylight pict: Direct daylight: Hope this help J. |
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General Kahn Force Addict
Posts : 3099 Join date : 2011-04-10 Age : 45 Location : England
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:50 pm | |
| Hi Rawlin, I would agree with Javi that this is not a POCH figure, I have the same Bossk with very similar fading/discolouration and the same COO, this came from a guaranteed English childhood collection. |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:44 pm | |
| Never said it where :)think I said I have no clue, I just noticed the other bossk and figured I could contribute. I never saw that bossk being resolved but its so many pages I might have missed it. No need to yell about it lol I had a bad day and it was 35 celcius here, this is what I took as yelling - Quote :
- Bossk shown in your pict IS NOT A POCH FIGURE.
Normally that means yelling to me, but maybe you just tried to make sure it was seen. Anyway thanks for the help with the figure, I do appreciate it. I just like to add that I've found the PBP Han hoth I sold here on the forum in a collection I know is 100% bought in sweden. Reason I know that is because he was my neighbor when we where kids and I know he stopped collecting before the 90s. Was a very good collection. Even so there was also a couple of ledy figures in it that got confirmed here as well R2 as an example. Maybe people traveled, bought some figures and then the kids traded when they got back home. Maybe stores imported etc. I don't know. Here are some more pictures of the strange looking bossk sadly I can't get the correct colors. I hate iphone. There is a pretty large difference on the limbs. Here the figure is acctually directly under a dentist lamp that is pretty bright, I can see it perfectly but it sucks on the camera... Since I bought it at CEII I have no clue where it's from, but I've never seen one here. |
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Dr Dengar TIG Benefactor
Posts : 7048 Join date : 2010-05-07 Age : 53 Location : The Netherlands
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:35 pm | |
| Hi Javi, thank you for chiming in my friend! Claes, I am sure Javi just wanted to stress your Bossk figure is not a POCH figure, w/o any further intention. In written communication things can get lost. Back to the topic: In my opinion there are two types of Bossk figures, having COO#1. Below you see comparison pics between a Bossk from Spain and a Kenner Bossk, both having COO#1. A POCH Bossk with COO#3 was also included to show the differences in the degree of green of the limbs (no green, brownish green, toxic green) Bossk: Kenner COO#1 (left), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (middle), confirmed POCH Bossk with COO #3 (right). Bossk: Kenner COO#1 (left), Figure from Spain with COO#1 (middle), confirmed POCH Bossk with COO #3 (right). Compared to his Kenner brother, the Bossk from Spain has:
- Clear Greenish limbs. probably due to discolouration. Not so green as the confimred POCH Bossk though (see pic)
- Paler yellow limbs, probably also due to discolouration, Note that the Kenner version also has pale limbs, but less pronounced.
- Small chest cross.
- Typical PBP smell!!!
- Bigger pupils, may be due to hand painting
- Darker red lips, eyes, and "neck band'. The lips are fat, but somewhat less pronounced as is the case for the PBP Bossk.
More here: Bossk (Post #3) Meanwhile I have two of these Bossk figures (like the middle figure in the pics above), both obtained from Spanish childhood collections. The greenish limbs, the red paint used, the bigger lips, and the chemical smell, are different compared to Kenner figures. I don't know what that means, but it hints towards Spanish production IMO. Claes: Could you check your Bossk for features #1-#6, listed above. Cheers Marco |
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javiswspain Grand Moff
Posts : 939 Join date : 2010-03-20 Age : 48
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:34 pm | |
| Sorry Claes, it was not My intention To disturb you or any body else, Just wanted To remark is not a Poch figure ,imo. |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:02 pm | |
| - javiswspain wrote:
- Sorry Claes, it was not My intention To disturb you or any body else, Just wanted To remark is not a Poch figure ,imo.
No worries, it was my fault for missunderstanding, I should have understood how it was meant, but I had a pretty bad day and probably wasn't thinking clear in the heat. It's been way warmer here then I can ever remember it being. I'm sorry for over reacting. I really do appreciate the help. |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:29 am | |
| It's at times like this I hate not being able to connect my good camera to the computer. I think I finally managed to get a little more correct color shot. I have another bossk with faded limbs small c , would say that is a Kenner. But the fading doesn't look the same. I've smelled some of my bossks and this one, and there is something but I can hardly smell anything from any of them. It's a different kind of red, stronger and glossier. It's noticeably darker red then my other bossks. The green is not like my other bossks but its not like the confirmed bossk. The scales are very visible unlike the other bossks. |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:39 am | |
| Edit: My god these images look horrible on the computer lol. Sorry. The color on the legs though is more correct on that above picture. Damn iphone twisted it around as well. This show red difference better. Sorry for double posts, writing from phone. |
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Rawlin Grand Moff
Posts : 993 Join date : 2011-01-17 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:15 am | |
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Last edited by Rawlin on Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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General Kahn Force Addict
Posts : 3099 Join date : 2011-04-10 Age : 45 Location : England
| Subject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:18 am | |
| - Rawlin wrote:
- A friend asked about this figure. I had trouble id it, do you think it's pbp?
Hi Claes, Luke Bespin is the Dark Boots - Painted Hip version of the figure, this specific variation was a European variation, most common in the U.K. on Palitoy ROTJ 45 Back C cards and the ROTJ 65 Back D cards. He could also be found on Tri-Logo cards. This variation is generally referred to as PBP (like so many non-specific PBP figures) however no carded PBP examples of this figure exist, BUT these figures have turned up in Spanish childhood collections so it is an almost certanty that this figure could be found in Spain, but it is not a PBP specific variation. The melt marks go in it's favour also as possibly originating from Spain, but again, not a certainty as this could happen else where, his hands are pink also, as opposed to the usual 'pale' hands (this figure could be found with either) Here is one of my Dark Boots Bespin Luke's with 'melt marks' and the paler hand spray. Hope this helps chief, not sure about the Lobot, but I have a Ben Kenobi with a similar hand, looks a bit like a casting error or something. Anything you need to know about Bespin Luke though, click the link in my signature, and if the figure is for sale PM me |
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