Hi JC, thanks on your reply, some great info you have there, I agree 100% with Marco (Dr. Dengar) I would not give someone a neg for just presenting a new view on things.

Please take a look, here's where she's talking about the Tropa Imperial.:


You're right she's referring to a small team but that was just one team from a lot of teams. Here she's talking about a run of 100,000 figures of 'Tropa Imperial':


She also talks about the LL factory on Mexico City working 24 hours each day with 3 different shifts because of the huge demand of LL toys, of course with the SW line included:


and it was a big factory:


You're right about the 'Imperio' figures, none carded example survived and there are a few cards around, and yes, it was a short run and Celia explains that it was a 'test' for the Mexican market just as you said:


Celia worked on the LL Factory on Mexico City until the day it closed its doors on 1985 and she talks about working on 3 3/4 SW figures just as Alejandro did, both of them don't talk about the factory on Tijuana so I guess they didn't knew about it... It was a General Mills operation and LL was not part of this plan.
The factory on Mexico City did worked on the SW line until 1985 and I have no reason to think they didn't produced all the SW line, figures, ships, Jabba, etc. It was a big factory working 3 shifts 24 hours per day, and at some point (1983) GM opened the Tijuana factory in order to produce SW toys (MIM toys) for the US market away from the union problems of LL and close to the US border due to logistics.

I know there are some great LL collectors out there that do have more info on this, they are part of TIG, I hope they can jump in and share all that info with us, information I know but that I can't share as I don't have photos or proves at hand and it will be just my word and I guess we need more that that to set some facts here.
Come guys you know who you are!!

Panastur wrote:

OZIO wrote:

tundra9 wrote:

So what you're saying is that GM made the 3 3/4 figures in Mexico, but Ledy packaged them?

General Mills Mexico was Lili Ledy

mmmmm a bit reductive, don't you think???

Lili-Ledy was acquired by General Mills inc. (USA). General Mills Mexico is just a delegation created to operate all these acquisitions on the mexican territory. Not only Lili-Ledy, but also Häagen-Dazs ice cream, Nature Valley granola bars, Pillsbury baking mixes and Betty Crocker... and a hundred more

LL never packaged Ice Creams for Haagen-Dazs even if they are in the same company!!!

A more appropriate term for all these acquisions proscess is "holding": General Mills is just an International Holding, but all these acquisitions worked for their own, making their own profit under one and only owner(GM)

This is just marketing

Lili Ledy and Haagen-Daz are operational subsidiaries (operate under their own identity) of the parent holding company General Mills. Haagen-Daz and Lili Ledy operated independently of one another under the same mother organization. If the mother organization built a toy manufacturing factory in Mexico to support one of their many operational subsidiaries, we can certainly argue it wasn't built for their Haagen-Daz brand; Just as the milk processing facility wasn't built to support Lili Ledy.

Nobody is implying Lili Ledy packaged Haagen-Daz or that any of General Mills operational subsidiaries worked congruently with one other. General Mills, the owner of Lili Ledy built a toy manufacturing facility that supplied Lili Ledy (and others). This is where we could debate which brand technically manufactured the figures. My line of thinking is this: They're all under the same tree.

stevefdwyer wrote:

Excellent information Ozio.... and I always believed your story Adolfo of the Ledy tours. Those are some great, historical memories my friend.... Not to mention interesting toys that the kids received at the end of the tours.
-Steve

While I have been enjoying reading this thread and the discussion that's going on. Let's not forget that Merlin also thought Negrito's were made and handed out at the LL factory.

So I think childhood recollections about locations and what was actually going on should still be questioned and not taken as 100% fact. I'm not saying all childhood memories are false by any stretch, but they have been known to cloud/embellish facts as to what really was the case.

merlin wrote:

Like 6 or 7 months ago I saw a Carded Mexican Yoda with a black serpent called "EL NEGRITO" ( Was a cheaper version of the L.L. Yoda and it was made for the poor people back in the early 80´s).

If my memory still works and If I remember correctly , In the early 80´s I went to the Lily Ledy factory once with my school ( like a school trip) and I remember that I saw it in there because the factory gave them as a gift for kids that visited the factory!!

I didn´t get the Yoda, something else was given to me.

My brother is older than me , I think when he went , his friends and him got some Star wars things, of course all of that is gone!

Making long story short..... I saw it , and they were selling that one for 2000USD..... sadly, I don´t know who bought it!

Taken from this thread: Old Thread

For those that don't know, here's some "light reading" on Negrito's:

Yoda Bootleg

Negrito Bootleg

Hi Chris. I was actually talking about Lili Ledy figures, and or Lili Ledy parts that were given out to be created into figures. I saw what was written, but I was not talking about bootlegs. Maybe Ozio can add to this also... I never went on a tour there as a child : )

Hi Guys,

OZIO - Great article and no more doubt about their own production on site...

So what the hell they done in that plant of Tijuana??? The space ships we can found on European boxes?? Y-Wing, Rancor, Skiff....??? ...And maybe the two Ewok Logray and Lumat world-widely available???

Mike_Z wrote:

Panastur wrote:

OZIO wrote:

tundra9 wrote:

So what you're saying is that GM made the 3 3/4 figures in Mexico, but Ledy packaged them?

General Mills Mexico was Lili Ledy

mmmmm a bit reductive, don't you think???

Lili-Ledy was acquired by General Mills inc. (USA). General Mills Mexico is just a delegation created to operate all these acquisitions on the mexican territory. Not only Lili-Ledy, but also Häagen-Dazs ice cream, Nature Valley granola bars, Pillsbury baking mixes and Betty Crocker... and a hundred more

LL never packaged Ice Creams for Haagen-Dazs even if they are in the same company!!!

A more appropriate term for all these acquisions proscess is "holding": General Mills is just an International Holding, but all these acquisitions worked for their own, making their own profit under one and only owner(GM)

This is just marketing

Lili Ledy and Haagen-Daz are operational subsidiaries (operate under their own identity) of the parent holding company General Mills. Haagen-Daz and Lili Ledy operated independently of one another under the same mother organization. If the mother organization built a toy manufacturing factory in Mexico to support one of their many operational subsidiaries, we can certainly argue it wasn't built for their Haagen-Daz brand; Just as the milk processing facility wasn't built to support Lili Ledy.

Nobody is implying Lili Ledy packaged Haagen-Daz or that any of General Mills operational subsidiaries worked congruently with one other. General Mills, the owner of Lili Ledy built a toy manufacturing facility that supplied Lili Ledy (and others). This is where we could debate which brand technically manufactured the figures. My line of thinking is this: They're all under the same tree.

Hi Mike, no offense. Seriously.... Maybe it was a bad example from me, sorry. I'm just trying to explain that this new plant was totally independent from LL. GM could set this plant in Panamà and all would be different. I think it's just a coincidence that both factories are in the same country and that GM chosen Mexico because the proximity and the work force price... That's all.

But i am glad you mentioned that this factory of Tijuana also provided LL...as they do for Kenner, PBP and maybe other sister companies.

Just hope to bring more info till the end of the month.

JC

There is a risk that this thread will soon end up in a strong debate about what happened and what did not happen during Lili Ledy school trips, as extracted from childhood memories.

While I am a strong advocate of having an open debate, I also would like to keep this thread on track. Here we are discussing former Lili Ledy factories/ buildings and we are trying to trace them back using the old addresses. In addition JC introduced a new view about the plant which was responsible for the production of the 3 3/4 line.

Regarding school trips, these have already been discussed before, so pls continue there, preferentially when it adds anything new.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t1630-real-or-fake

Ok let's continue discussing factories here....

RebelChris wrote:

stevefdwyer wrote:

Excellent information Ozio.... and I always believed your story Adolfo of the Ledy tours. Those are some great, historical memories my friend.... Not to mention interesting toys that the kids received at the end of the tours.
-Steve

While I have been enjoying reading this thread and the discussion that's going on. Let's not forget that Merlin also thought Negrito's were made and handed out at the LL factory.

So I think childhood recollections about locations and what was actually going on should still be questioned and not taken as 100% fact. I'm not saying all childhood memories are false by any stretch, but they have been known to cloud/embellish facts as to what really was the case.

merlin wrote:

Like 6 or 7 months ago I saw a Carded Mexican Yoda with a black serpent called "EL NEGRITO" ( Was a cheaper version of the L.L. Yoda and it was made for the poor people back in the early 80´s).

If my memory still works and If I remember correctly , In the early 80´s I went to the Lily Ledy factory once with my school ( like a school trip) and I remember that I saw it in there because the factory gave them as a gift for kids that visited the factory!!

I didn´t get the Yoda, something else was given to me.

My brother is older than me , I think when he went , his friends and him got some Star wars things, of course all of that is gone!

Making long story short..... I saw it , and they were selling that one for 2000USD..... sadly, I don´t know who bought it!

Taken from this thread: Old Thread

For those that don't know, here's some "light reading" on Negrito's:

Yoda Bootleg

Negrito Bootleg

Let's not forget chris that you were one of the tís forum members that thought I was lying about ll giving away franknstein action figures at the end of school tours, now that Luis galves and myself talk about it, i'm glad to know ít was real and he has several examples, now talking about the negrito , probably the negrito was another franknstein action figure that we will never know. Whíle making fun of me another member also post a pic of a chewbacca with breast, saying that anybody could make an action figure.... Lol, i find out like 3 months ago, it was part of the sw christmas specíal action figure made by kenner... Btw what a boring thing to watch.... Lol
Lets not forget also that in here everbody said my carded ll 8d8 was fake because of the insert, and again i prove that everybody was wrong.
Is it just me or i' ve been correct in all of the times and tís members just keep quiet as i unvealed some things you haven't Even seen!!!!!!.... Instead of making fun of us , you should thank us for bringing new info to this site, that not even rs have.
Honestly, i don't care anymore if anybody belives me or not, gladly all ledy experts conclúde the same as me.

Marco..... You want to talk about the ll factory.... I was the first to upload pics of the ll factory , again Not even in RS had them!!!!!.... I have to bother my mexico city friends to do that ( and again not many of you believe me) until everybody saw Carlos videos...
So 3 things í've correct about ll and many people still question me!!!!... Is it just me or i'm stupid to still post important info about ll in here!!...
Please don' t tell me now that luis g. , ozio and me are wrong and that ll didn't produce any star wars figure!!!.... Lol!!

General Mills de Mexico SA
Boulevard Bellas Artes 52 L-27 . Col. Ciudad Industrial . Tijuana BC . Tel. (664)211-8792

THey may help to locate the factory....

JC

Taken from http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1084964-2/

LuisG wrote:

Hello DrDengar

I just saw this thread in RS forums then I went to read the TIG forums about this and I want to clarify some points:

1.- I was in contact with Mr. Alejandro Becerra who was the Quality Control Director of Lili Ledy and also he introduce also one of his friends whom worked as Manager in the production line in the Tlanepantla factory.

2.- The interview published in the Universo Star Wars Magazine showed just some questions that we made to him but we asked him a lot of questions (not published), and we had several meetings with him.

3.- The Lili Ledy figures were made in the Lili Ledy Tlanepantla factory (using imported molds from the Asia factories) and also were packed there, this were confirmed by these two formed employees

4.- Mr. Becerra confirmed that The Lili Ledy factory also was in contact with the Tijuana factory then he confirmed they made in Tijuana some of the ships as the Tatooine Skiff and the A Wing.

5.- Mr. Becerra worked closely with Kenner in Cincinnati because Lili Ledy reported to Kenner and he use to travel several times per year (in the 80’s) to visit Kenner in Cincinnati to check how to produce the toys then he did bring back to Mexico (to the Lili Ledy Tlanepantla factory) Kenner carded figures with the Quality Control signatures and codes in the backcards to check with the production area how to reach the Kenner quality and standards. Also he did bring back to Mexico photos of the Kenner products and plastic samples to make the toys using these plastic colors.
As proof of this he still have some of these carded figures and also he showed me some photos of the time when he was in his office in the Lili Ledy factory with other directors in a meeting discussing about the Lili Ledy toys (also with Kenner toys on their hands).
Also he has other photos of him on his office with a lot of Kenner products (used to check quality and color in front of Lili Ledy products).
In some of the documents he showed me from his years in Lili Ledy he also had blueprints of bubbles and blueprints of fabric for the figure’s cloths and Lili Ledy proof cards. And also he had 3 prototypes on the ESB Lili Ledy cardbacks (you can see these in the magazine Universo Star Wars).

6.- Also Mr. Becerra confirmed that the Lili Ledy factory in Tlanepantla made some figures to be exported to the US market, all of these on Kenner cards.

7.- General Mills decided in 85 to spun off its toy division and Kenner who was in charge of Lili Ledy saw several times that Lili Ledy had problems with its union of workers (this affected the production of the company) then GM and Kenner took the decision to close the company to avoid more problems (by the time they decided to close the factory the workers were on strike and when they know that the factory is going to close they began to work again but the decision was done).

All these lines I’m writing were information from Mr. Becerra who is a reliable source who was in the top management of the Lili Ledy company.

By other hand on 2004 Josefina and I got “golden information” about the Lili Ledy company, this information was an audiovisual material that one friend made for a request of Lili Ledy in the 80's.

This friend made these photos an audio as a material to be showed to all to the workers of the company, showing the process and the final product in order to get the commitment of all of them as a team. This material showed the company, the production process (the toys from the molds, the paint job, the assemble job, the carded job and the packaging job) and the lines of production and finally the carded toys, also it is showed the testing process that the toys were through. Also this material shows some Kenner carded figures made in the Lili Ledy factory.

These photos and audio were taken in the Lili Ledy Factory in Tlanepantla. I’m going to show some of these photos on my CVI presentation.

This post is long but I want to unveil all these answers to a lot questions, and the main answer was that the Lili Ledy figures were made in the Lili Ledy Tlanepantla factory in Mexico City.

Best

Luis Galvez

By the way, I already saw the pictures !!

Great Material , I should stay more time in Mexico City , looking for more LL material and pics , but again I´m sure somebody will say they are photoshoped !! ...

BTW.... you can add one more that I was correct!!! ...... I saw the production line!!! ...

where are the members that make fun of me, when I first told the story???

Panastur wrote:

General Mills de Mexico SA
Boulevard Bellas Artes 52 L-27 . Col. Ciudad Industrial . Tijuana BC . Tel. (664)211-8792

THey may help to locate the factory....

JC

Thanks JC!!

I tried Google Map......

merlin wrote:

By the way, I already saw the pictures !!

Great Material , I should stay more time in Mexico City , looking for more LL material and pics , but again I´m sure somebody will say they are photoshoped !! ...

BTW.... you can add one more that I was correct!!! ...... I saw the production line!!! ...

where are the members that make fun of me, when I first told the story???

Merlin, I don't recall anyone making fun of you when you first posted the story. Just some of us were/are skeptical when 2 years ago you came out from nowhere sharing stories and claiming them as facts. Some members are quick to believe anything they hear and that can be a bad thing. I'm glad the Luis shared his info as I am more inclined to believe him because I know him from his hobby rep and he's been around a lot longer. He has earned it. I'm not saying that means you're lying, but that is just how it is with me and a few others who were asking you questions. You yourself, yesterday, changed your mind about the production line or packaging line within 2 hours. That shows to me that you aren't always 100% positive on your stories. Another example is you remembering the Negrito Yoda that Chris mentioned. It was a long time ago now and memories certainly fade. I'd still like to hear Luis talk about the cobbled together figures at the end of the factory tours as he hasn't posted that info anywhere that I'm aware of. I will be at his CVI panel and can't wait to hear about the info that he has uncovered.

It's great that some of you info has been backed up now from another trusted source.

I havent followed the discussion preciseley, but I have a few comments (sorry if they are double)

1. I have done much research on LL ESB loose figures together with Ozio. Without him it wouldnt have been possible! We have found a lot of figures that are A) unique to Mexico and B) never appeared on LL ROTJ cards! The conclusion is they appeared on LL ESB cards!

I hope that helps you a bit in your research J.C.

Im pretty sure: Yes: LL produced the ESB line already by themselves! These figures have nothing in comon with spanish figures at that time!!!

2. Connection to PBP

I guess there was simply none! To me LL exported some figures to PBP in the later time frame.The figures should be well know till now...I posted it a hundred times (I feel). Again....on spanish ROTJ cards appeared (at least on some) following LL figures:
Ben, Klaatu, Luke Bespin, C3PO, R2, Yoda (all prooven) and possibly Weequay.
There is simply no differneces between those and the LL released figures. All differences documented are resulted in the way of production in the LL factory that often changed the result. No matter how and what: One LL figure compared to a PBP figure is no way for a proof! I have collected many many 3POs for example from spain and from Mexico. All examples and all differences can be found in both countries: They are simply the same. End of story!

Coos , Paint and material used are different between LL and PBP. There is simply no connection IMO!

edit: Before anybody shouts: Yes I know...the Stromtrooper has the same coo and is actually really different. That the one example (as always) that cuts the rule. Same coo different material and paint. Its the only figure I really dont see as exported from LL but has also the same coo. Well excepetions always happen when it comes to SW production!

3. I agree heavily on Chris's opinion! Merlin confuses a lot of stuff! I and Merlin mostly disagree. The Negritos are a good example IMO.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2135p615-the-lili-ledy-discussion-thread#58112

shawn_k wrote:

You yourself, yesterday, changed your mind about the production line or packaging line within 2 hours.That shows to me that you aren't always 100% positive on your stories............ I'd still like to hear Luis talk about the cobbled together figures at the end of the factory tours as he hasn't posted that info anywhere that I'm aware of

LOL!! ... you are so right my friend!! .. do you think I want to share my stories any more with this forum after all the BS you throw at me????????? I´m just tired of wasting my time and trying to share things with this forum ( wall) , SORRY I was been soooooooooooooooooooo sarcastic , it was my fault to confuse people!!! I even make fun of the members that wrote in the past ....memories of the childhood are wrong.... I even put a , I guess that´s a Latin thing !!! ...

LOL!!!! ...... here we go again!!.. haahahah , about the action figures given at the end of the tour ..... wow, that is getting very old, my friend, you can believe whatever you want, if you are going to the panel, ask him! I´m sure he will have an answer for you!! I´m sure you will be quite surprise! ......

wbobafett wrote:

3. I agree heavily on Chris's opinion! Merlin confuses a lot of stuff! I and Merlin mostly disagree. The Negritos are a good example IMO.

Yes, you are correct , but only the part you and me mostly disgree in everything , LOL!!! LOL! after all I took you ONLY 2 years to confirm what I said , that´s a good example IMO !!!! LOL!! ....

talking seriously about another interesting subjects ( as I already prove to everybody my story was real and they still want to discredit it LOL! )..... wbobafett I was talking to a very highly and respected collector about your work (about the comparison you have did with all the action figures!! , the COO´s and their differences and we agree it was an amazing job!!!).

merlin wrote:

.... after all I took you ONLY 2 years to confirm what I said , that´s a good example IMO !!!! LOL!! ....

pardon me?? I dont get this Merlin. Please explain?

merlin wrote:

talking seriously about another interesting subjects ( as I already prove to everybody my story was real and they still want to discredit it LOL! )..... wbobafett I was talking to a very highly and respected collector about your work (about the comparison you have did with all the action figures!! , the COO´s and their differences and we agree it was an amazing job!!!).

Thanks for the compliments!

wbobafett wrote:

merlin wrote:

.... after all I took you ONLY 2 years to confirm what I said , that´s a good example IMO !!!! LOL!! ....

pardon me?? I dont get this Merlin. Please explain?

merlin wrote:

talking seriously about another interesting subjects ( as I already prove to everybody my story was real and they still want to discredit it LOL! )..... wbobafett I was talking to a very highly and respected collector about your work (about the comparison you have did with all the action figures!! , the COO´s and their differences and we agree it was an amazing job!!!).

Thanks for the compliments!

Honestly I prefer to talk with you about the last subject, as we both agree we are going to disagree in the first one....

like I told you before , in the last Mexico City convention , we were talking about the importance of your guide and how you make our lives easier , and of course the hours of work you put into that !!!

It was funny , I saw a couple of people with their phones ( with the TIS guide) comparing the loose lili ledy figures with the kenner based in your work! .... believe it or not , I also can recognize your excellent work!!

merlin wrote:

Let's not forget chris that you were one of the tís forum members that thought I was lying about ll giving away franknstein action figures at the end of school tours, now that Luis galves and myself talk about it, i'm glad to know ít was real and he has several examples, now talking about the negrito , probably the negrito was another franknstein action figure that we will never know. Whíle making fun of me another member also post a pic of a chewbacca with breast, saying that anybody could make an action figure.... Lol, i find out like 3 months ago, it was part of the sw christmas specíal action figure made by kenner... Btw what a boring thing to watch.... Lol
Lets not forget also that in here everbody said my carded ll 8d8 was fake because of the insert, and again i prove that everybody was wrong.
Is it just me or i' ve been correct in all of the times and tís members just keep quiet as i unvealed some things you haven't Even seen!!!!!!.... Instead of making fun of us , you should thank us for bringing new info to this site, that not even rs have.
Honestly, i don't care anymore if anybody belives me or not, gladly all ledy experts conclúde the same as me.

Marco..... You want to talk about the ll factory.... I was the first to upload pics of the ll factory , again Not even in RS had them!!!!!.... I have to bother my mexico city friends to do that ( and again not many of you believe me) until everybody saw Carlos videos...
So 3 things í've correct about ll and many people still question me!!!!... Is it just me or i'm stupid to still post important info about ll in here!!...
Please don' t tell me now that luis g. , ozio and me are wrong and that ll didn't produce any star wars figure!!!.... Lol!!

Ahhh... here we go again. I knew this reply was coming from you when I wrote that.

I've debated whether to reply to you all afternoon as I'm really not trying to turn this into a bitching session.

However, no one here is making fun of you. Not currently anyway. All I was saying in my reply to Steve is to not take childhood memories for 100% truth/fact/gospel. As is evident of you thinking you picked up Negrito figures at the Ledy factory in the 80's. When in fact the Negrito figures were created in the 90's as fake bootlegs to rip collectors off. It's no different than people thinking they were sent Rocket Firing Fetts in the mail or found Revenge of the Jedi MOCs in toy stores. Same fuzzy memory, same principle. It just didn't happen.

I don't doubt the Ledy factory handed out figures at the end of tours. I also don't doubt that you went on one of those tours. But even you, yourself, can't remember clearly if you saw the production of figures, or if you saw them being packaged. As Shawn pointed out, you changed your mind on that.

All I'm saying is to take everything someone remembers from their childhood with a bit of caution. It may have happened, it may not of. But it certainly isn't infallible.

I get that you are feeling picked on right now. But you have to take yourself out of the defensive posture and look at things a bit broader. There's a shit load of misinformation out there about Lili Ledy's. And for someone to come into a forum and start proclaiming things that no one has ever heard of before.... it makes people question the validity of those claims. Especially when it goes against the grain of what's been "accepted" before. It's great that new information about the LL factory is coming out, that's quite interesting. But as I'm sure you can see, it takes a lot of research, knowledge, time and fact checking to change peoples minds about things. Just saying something happened, with no provenance to back it up, doesn't make it fact.

If you'd like to continue this line of discussion I'd suggest you PM me or start a new thread, so this one can get back on track as it's been derailed far enough.

RebelChris wrote:

merlin wrote:

Let's not forget chris that you were one of the tís forum members that thought I was lying about ll giving away franknstein action figures at the end of school tours, now that Luis galves and myself talk about it, i'm glad to know ít was real and he has several examples, now talking about the negrito , probably the negrito was another franknstein action figure that we will never know. Whíle making fun of me another member also post a pic of a chewbacca with breast, saying that anybody could make an action figure.... Lol, i find out like 3 months ago, it was part of the sw christmas specíal action figure made by kenner... Btw what a boring thing to watch.... Lol
Lets not forget also that in here everbody said my carded ll 8d8 was fake because of the insert, and again i prove that everybody was wrong.
Is it just me or i' ve been correct in all of the times and tís members just keep quiet as i unvealed some things you haven't Even seen!!!!!!.... Instead of making fun of us , you should thank us for bringing new info to this site, that not even rs have.
Honestly, i don't care anymore if anybody belives me or not, gladly all ledy experts conclúde the same as me.

Marco..... You want to talk about the ll factory.... I was the first to upload pics of the ll factory , again Not even in RS had them!!!!!.... I have to bother my mexico city friends to do that ( and again not many of you believe me) until everybody saw Carlos videos...
So 3 things í've correct about ll and many people still question me!!!!... Is it just me or i'm stupid to still post important info about ll in here!!...
Please don' t tell me now that luis g. , ozio and me are wrong and that ll didn't produce any star wars figure!!!.... Lol!!

Ahhh... here we go again. I knew this reply was coming from you when I wrote that.

I've debated whether to reply to you all afternoon as I'm really not trying to turn this into a bitching session.

However, no one here is making fun of you. Not currently anyway. All I was saying in my reply to Steve is to not take childhood memories for 100% truth/fact/gospel. As is evident of you thinking you picked up Negrito figures at the Ledy factory in the 80's. When in fact the Negrito figures were created in the 90's as fake bootlegs to rip collectors off. It's no different than people thinking they were sent Rocket Firing Fetts in the mail or found Revenge of the Jedi MOCs in toy stores. Same fuzzy memory, same principle. It just didn't happen.

I don't doubt the Ledy factory handed out figures at the end of tours. I also don't doubt that you went on one of those tours. But even you, yourself, can't remember clearly if you saw the production of figures, or if you saw them being packaged. As Shawn pointed out, you changed your mind on that.

All I'm saying is to take everything someone remembers from their childhood with a bit of caution. It may have happened, it may not of. But it certainly isn't infallible.

I get that you are feeling picked on right now. But you have to take yourself out of the defensive posture and look at things a bit broader. There's a shit load of misinformation out there about Lili Ledy's. And for someone to come into a forum and start proclaiming things that no one has ever heard of before.... it makes people question the validity of those claims. Especially when it goes against the grain of what's been "accepted" before. It's great that new information about the LL factory is coming out, that's quite interesting. But as I'm sure you can see, it takes a lot of research, knowledge, time and fact checking to change peoples minds about things. Just saying something happened, with no provenance to back it up, doesn't make it fact.

If you'd like to continue this line of discussion I'd suggest you PM me or start a new thread, so this one can get back on track as it's been derailed far enough.

wow , wow , wow , NOT AGAIN , here we go , Chris , I don´t want to waste my time , can you please read my answer .... do you understand sarcasm?????? ( production line??) did you actually read the complete thread?? , hahahaha , now the only thing you have left to attack me is the Negrito??

why do you want me to PM you ??? , when you make fun of my "story" you did it in public ( not thru a PM!), and NOW that things are getting clear for YOU ( about LL ) , now you want to discuss it privately??

Chris, everytime I have been right or wrong about the LL things / factory / stories I have the balls to accept I was wrong or right , but in here I can smell the arrogance a mile away!!! , funny stuff is that nobody of those who make fun of me and then I prove them wrong, has come out and say something in PUBLIC!! ...

If you are attending CIV , and I hope you attend L.G. panel , you will be quite surprised!! .... after that pls come to this thread and we will talk about many things! ....

I agree with you in one thing let´s continue with this thread that is about the LL factory ..... I just remind you that I was the ONE to post the first pics of the factory that YOU didn´t find anywhere else!!!! I had to bother my Mexico City friends to get those pics for this forum ( so at least you should THANK ME FOR THAT!), as those members that make fun of me didn´t do anything to find it ( they just were sitting down behind a computer writing BS)...

Some great info here getting shared by ALL of you. Would be a shame to see it turn into a pissing contest.

Guys

I think this needs to cool down .

I want everyone to have a clear head before replying. I will say that as an outsider looking in on this thread some good points are getting lost due to some emotion.

Adolfo - In all fairness Chris wasn't taking a swipe at you. It was just a point that we all remember stuff from childhoods that's not always correct. The Negrito Yoda (which is still the most racist SW toy Ive seen LOL) was your example but they're also kids who swear they had a RF Fett, etc.. It's not saying that someone is lying and trying to deceive , it's just that we all mix some facts after over 30yrs.

You've uncovered some great stuff and nobody is saying otherwise. I think the Negrito example was just to point out we are getting older and our memories get a little faded.

Back to friendship, you both go

DarthBerizing wrote:

Guys

I think this needs to cool down .

I want everyone to have a clear head before replying. I will say that as an outsider looking in on this thread some good points are getting lost due to some emotion.

Adolfo - In all fairness Chris wasn't taking a swipe at you. It was just a point that we all remember stuff from childhoods that's not always correct. The Negrito Yoda (which is still the most racist SW toy Ive seen LOL) was your example but they're also kids who swear they had a RF Fett, etc.. It's not saying that someone is lying and trying to deceive , it's just that we all mix some facts after over 30yrs.

You've uncovered some great stuff and nobody is saying otherwise. I think the Negrito example was just to point out we are getting older and our memories get a little faded.

Back to friendship, you both go

Fair enough to me John, funny thing is that you ( not you , but the other ones) said the same about my memories , that I was mixing some facts and that I was completely wrong ( about everything) and now that other well known LL expert is going to talk about , nobody says anything and they focus in the Negrito , here is where I see the complete arrogance of this forum , I don´t see those brave ( sarcastic) members saying ... YOU WERE RIGHT!!! I´m sure they are hiding behind the screen just reading this thread!! HILARIOUS!! , don´t you think???? ..

.... by the way I´m waiting for a pic of a friend that will unveil this mystery!! ... of course I took 2 years to unveil all this LL factory thing, so maybe we can wait another 2 years for that one!! ..

Ya know I figure I should chime in here. I owe you all an apology. My statement here is what started this all off...

"Excellent information Ozio.... and I always believed your story Adolfo of the Ledy tours. Those are some great, historical memories my friend.... Not to mention interesting toys that the kids received at the end of the tours.
-Steve"

I should have not posted the part about the toys at the end of the tour part. I honestly forgot this debate and how heated it got from the past. My statement was not meant to stir the pot or cause any problems. So with that said, my apologies go out to the Mods and to Adolfo. We all are friends here that are passionate about collecting, so it would be nice to keep things civil and respectful.
-Steve

I say Santa Clause come down my chimney when I was 6. True story

Wow, I havent followed this for some time now and I have to say is it turned into a train wreck from hell. And its a damn shame too.

Merlin, when you first came out with the story, it was interesting, but you didnt have anything concrete to back it up. You know how vintage collectors are, if theres no providence to it, then no one will believe it without proof. Its like with deteriated and variant figures for me. If theres no proof its an actual variant that came from the factory that way, then its not real. Now, with Luis showing what you said is fact on some things is good news. Its good to see that someone else from that time not only remembers, but also still has some to this day. So look at it this way. Say someone pops up saying they remember having seen Bigfoot in their backyard (I know complete different scenerio) and had no proof of it. Do you seriously think anyone would believe them? Not really. But when you have their neighbor come up and say the same thing and they have the video or pix to prove it, sure they will be believed. Its really the same thing here. You said you were there and remember this. But when the story keeps changing, how do you expect anyone to buy it with a grain of salt? Let me say, Im not jumping on any bandwagon with this post. Im trying to make it a bit clearer on how some people are thinking at the moment. Your story has changed too many times so far for anybody to believe with YOU actually showing proof of it. Just cause someone else shows it, doesnt hold much for you. Thats their proof it happened. So keep digging around and hopefully you will be able to actually find those pix you were talking about in the beginning of this to show off. It would be nice to see.

Chris_J wrote:

I say Santa Clause come down my chimney when I was 6. True story

Wow, I havent followed this for some time now and I have to say is it turned into a train wreck from hell. And its a damn shame too.

Merlin, when you first came out with the story, it was interesting, but you didnt have anything concrete to back it up. You know how vintage collectors are, if theres no providence to it, then no one will believe it without proof. Its like with deteriated and variant figures for me. If theres no proof its an actual variant that came from the factory that way, then its not real. Now, with Luis showing what you said is fact on some things is good news. Its good to see that someone else from that time not only remembers, but also still has some to this day. So look at it this way. Say someone pops up saying they remember having seen Bigfoot in their backyard (I know complete different scenerio) and had no proof of it. Do you seriously think anyone would believe them? Not really. But when you have their neighbor come up and say the same thing and they have the video or pix to prove it, sure they will be believed. Its really the same thing here. You said you were there and remember this. But when the story keeps changing, how do you expect anyone to buy it with a grain of salt? Let me say, Im not jumping on any bandwagon with this post. Im trying to make it a bit clearer on how some people are thinking at the moment. Your story has changed too many times so far for anybody to believe with YOU actually showing proof of it. Just cause someone else shows it, doesnt hold much for you. Thats their proof it happened. So keep digging around and hopefully you will be able to actually find those pix you were talking about in the beginning of this to show off. It would be nice to see.

Lol!...this kínd of reply is what yóu I was waiting for!!... from arrogant people!!!... This is what im talking about... They use jokes to try to hide their mistakes and the easy way out.

Thánks Chris, I really appreciate it, I rest my case!!!...

Im not being arrogant. I was actually giving you props for it. That little joke at the beginning was to try and litten the mood with this train wreck a bit, but guess your so hell bent on everything you missed it. And what mistakes am I trying to hide, do tell? At least Im not going around spreading bullshit about something without proof of it. Talk about arrogant.