vintageSWfan wrote:

Great job Ozio and Marco.

I second that. Thanks for your work and analytical comparisons.

**************************************** BREAKING NEWS *************************************************

1. The Ackbar entry has been updated with a few more pics which might be helpfull to identify him (thx Ozio!): Page 1
   
   
2. The Leia Boushh entry has been updated with a figure wearing a LL overstock helmet (thx Chaz!): Page 3
   
   
3. Added a Table of Contents for all the discussed figures. The table will be updated regularly: Page 1
   
   
4. Questions/discussion points throughout the thread are indicated in green: let's hope we get more answers here!

**************************************** BREAKING NEWS *************************************************

COO guide for C-3PO: Both COO no. 5 and COO no. 9 are shared by Ledy and Kenner (not indicated in the COO guide yet)


NOTE:
There exist two different COO versions for the Ledy C-3PO.

• COO no. 5: 2-lined COO, shared by Ledy and Kenner
  
• COO no. 9: 3-lined COO, shared by Ledy and Kenner
  

2-lined COO:
The comparison pics were made with a Kenner figure having a similar COO (COO no. 2)

C-3PO (2-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


C-3PO (2-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


C-3PO (2-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


C-3PO (2-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


DIFFERENCES:
Compared to his Kenner counterpart, the Ledy C-3PO has:
- less shiny gold paint
- a screw at the back
- more differences?

Remarks:

• Ledy and PBP C-3POs having the 2-lined COO seem to be exactly the same.
  
• Actually there are two versions of the 2-lined COO, with and without dent. Ledy and PBP C-3POs exist for both COO versions.
  

3-lined COO:
The comparison pics were made with a Kenner figure having a similar COO (COO no. 8 )

C-3PO (3-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


C-3PO (3-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


C-3PO (3-lined COO): Lili Ledy on the right.


DIFFERENCES:
Compared to his Kenner counterpart, the Ledy C-3PO has:
- less shiny gold paint
- a screw at the back
- more differences?


LILI LEDY VARIATIONS:

2-lined COO:
The following paint variants are known for the 2-lined COO:

• shiny gold (see pic below)
  
• dull gold (see pic below)
  
• chrome (see pic below)
  
• middle gold
  

Lili Ledy C-3PO variations (2-lined COO): chrome, dull gold and shiny gold finish.


Lili Ledy C-3PO variations (2-lined COO): chrome, dull gold and shiny gold finish.


3-lined COO:
The following paint variants are known for the 3-lined COO:

• shiny gold (scroll a bit up to see the pics)
  
• silver
  

What makes you 100% sure that the C-3PO in the middle is a Ledy one and not a PBP?

mike-skywalker wrote:

What makes you 100% sure that the C-3PO in the middle is a Ledy one and not a PBP?

HAhahhahhhha....or shall i say: Muhahhahhah!

This is a never ending storry! I also thought I could tell the differences. At this time I had 4 different Ledys and 2 different PBPs. Now I have added one more ledy and one more PBP. Both have reversed look....so...Im very unsure now.....

I would say the one from the pic is more PBP then Ledy...but honestly...by now I have a ledy that looks exact the same!

Marco I love the update on Luke Jedi ... this post rocked.

I didn't know that the LL V3 Blaster has a different "flash" point on the hilt. Technically speaking shouldn't this mean the LL Palace blaster is a V4?

The photo also confirms to some extent your belife that LL Palace Blasters were moulded in Mexcio. Well done mate - even more exicited to get my Dr Denger Surprise

what do you mean with "flash point"???

To me LL is V3. The color is important!

And Marco: NO...there is no brown one known! The brown one belongs to MIHK kenner release

I also have my problem with calling the ledy : "black one". The only black one existing is kenner Lando general and Luke endor! The ledy is more very very dark blue...nearly greyish dark blue!

Check it in daylight compared to a lando general one...you will see: ledy is not black

I say this not because Im picky...I says this because ATST drivers were sold over years with lando general black blaster as original balster...which is totally wrong and many people were duped!

wbobafett wrote:

mike-skywalker wrote:

What makes you 100% sure that the C-3PO in the middle is a Ledy one and not a PBP?

HAhahhahhhha....or shall i say: Muhahhahhah!

This is a never ending storry! I also thought I could tell the differences. At this time I had 4 different Ledys and 2 different PBPs. Now I have added one more ledy and one more PBP. Both have reversed look....so...Im very unsure now.....

I would say the one from the pic is more PBP then Ledy...but honestly...by now I have a ledy that looks exact the same!

Thanks Michael and Wolff! I learn something new every day here on TIG, one of the things which makes this site so great!!

Honestly I didn't know there was a PBP C-3PO version , which looks very similar to the Ledy version. Would be great to have some side by side pics here.

wbobafett wrote:

And Marco: NO...there is no brown one known! The brown one belongs to MIHK kenner release

OK that is good to know, thanks for confirming!

wbobafett wrote:

I also have my problem with calling the ledy : "black one". The only black one existing is kenner Lando general and Luke endor! The ledy is more very very dark blue...nearly greyish dark blue!

Check it in daylight compared to a lando general one...you will see: ledy is not black

I say this not because Im picky...I says this because ATST drivers were sold over years with lando general black blaster as original balster...which is totally wrong and many people were duped!

Oh man, Wolff, you are such a picky purist . So let me summarize:

• 'black' LL palace blaster (AT-ST driver) is actually very dark blue
  
• black Kenner palace blaster (Lando General, Luke Endor) is very very black, as black as deep inside Wolff's ar%#% . (and before getting strange questions, no guys, I did not check that, it was just an assumption :-)

Best thing to do in case of doubt is to check the molding of the black gun: V3 = Lili Ledy, V1 ≠ Lili Ledy

Sorry, I have only one LL C-3PO, but I found 2 PBP in Spain with different COOs. One with the dent beside the Hong Kong and one without.
left one is LL and the other two PBPs.



Have a look at toxictoyzz carded PBP C-3PO. Its the same dull gold...as the LL.
http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=vintagedisplay&Number=4346624&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=4278092&Search=true&where=&Name=13881&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post4346624

Im too lazy for a new pic....but fact is:

Ledy exist with 3 coos:
-3-lined
-2-lined with dent
-2-lined without dent

PBP exists:
- 2-lined with dent
- 2-lined without dent

I have following colors on these:

Ledy:
- silver (3-lined)
- siver (2-lined)
- middle gold (2-lined)
- gold dull (2-lined)
- gold shiny (2-lined)

PBP:
- gold dull (2-lined)
- gold shiny (2-lined)

I also have a silverish one which is PBP...but not sure if he just is rubbed all over

So......what both have in common is:

- screw in back
- sprayed gold in the "crotch" area...(differs from the rest of the gold which is more varnish like!
- exists with dent and without!


IMO its possible that Ledy produced for PBP. Like yoda and many other figures in spain can be exactly the same like Ledy!

But we will never know for sure!


BTW: the 3-lined 3po from ledy I would say its possibly a LL ESB version...like the Luke bespin yellow hair, the R2 no coo and the Leia bespin with very lightbrown hair!

Here is my Ledy 3 line coo C-3po

First class info Michael, Wolff, and Dan!! Thanks a lot!

wbobafett wrote:

Ledy exist with 3 coos:
-3-lined
-2-lined with dent
-2-lined without dent

PBP exists:
- 2-lined with dent
- 2-lined without dent

Do I got it right and does the pic below clarify the distinction between the 2-lined COOs with and w/o dent?

wbobafett wrote:

I have following colors on these:

Ledy:
- silver (3-lined)
- siver (2-lined)
- middle gold (2-lined)
- gold dull (2-lined)
- gold shiny (2-lined)

And apparently there is also a shiny gold C-3PO with the 3-lined COO (see Dan's pic)!!!

mike-skywalker wrote:

Have a look at toxictoyzz carded PBP C-3PO. Its the same dull gold...as the LL.
http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=vintagedisplay&Number=4346624&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=4278092&Search=true&where=&Name=13881&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post4346624

In toxictoyzz's thread there is a dull gold C-3PO on a PBP removable limbs C-3PO card. Is this a fixed limbs C-3PO? :scratch:

1. yes....thats the dent/no dent difference!

2. it seems so ....so I probably will hunt for a dull gold with 3-line

3. yes this is a fixed limbs! All PBP rem cards have fixed limbs conten

wbobafett wrote:

1. yes....thats the dent/no dent difference!

2. it seems so ....so I probably will hunt for a dull gold with 3-line

3. yes this is a fixed limbs! All PBP rem cards have fixed limbs conten

1 OK, thanks

2 Sorry to hear that, you can sell your green caped LL Luke Jedi to me to raise some funds.

3. Great, again learned something. Cool card BTW. Were there also PBP fixed limbs C-3POs w/o screw?

**************************************** BREAKING NEWS *************************************************

1. The Chewie entry has been updated with a LL variant cast in darker brown plastic: Page 1
   
   
2. The Klaatu entry has been updated with a variant wearing a thick fur with a leather belt: Page 6

**************************************** BREAKING NEWS *************************************************

COO guide for General Madine: No. 4 is shared by Lili Ledy and Kenner.



Note: There are two Kenner versions of Madine sharing the same COO as the Ledy Madine. (Thx for telling Uli ). One came with a molded beard (and painted face), and one with a molded face (and painted beard and hair). Comparison pics were made for both versions.

General Madine (comparison with molded beard Kenner figure): Lili Ledy on the right.


General Madine (comparison with molded beard Kenner figure): Lili Ledy on the right.


General Madine (comparison with molded beard Kenner figure): Lili Ledy on the right.


General Madine (comparison with molded beard Kenner figure): Lili Ledy on the right.


DIFFERENCES (compared to molded beard Kenner figure):
The Lili Ledy General Madine has:
- a pinkish molded face with dark painted beard and hair (instead of pale painted face with a light grey molded beard and hair)
- pale instead of dark blue eyes
- glossy instead of matt black gloves and boots. REMARK: boots can be matt too (see below)
- glossy instead of matt blue sleeves, the sleeves are darker blue too.
- a darker grey suit

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[color=yellow]General Madine (comparison with molded face Kenner figure): Lili Ledy on the right. (Thx for the pic Uli!).


DIFFERENCES (compared to molded face Kenner figure):
The Lili Ledy General Madine has:
- lighter grey beard - and hair
- pale blue instead of dark blue eyes
- glossy instead of matt black gloves and boots. REMARK: boots can be matt too (see below)
- glossy instead of matt blue sleeves, the sleeves are darker blue too.


LILI LEDY VARIATIONS:
Apparently Lili Ledy was not always very consequent when applying black paint. For some figures it might be matt and glossy. This is the case for:

• Prune Face (eye patch, see his entry on page 2)
  
• General Madine (boots)
  
• Biker Scout (arms, legs), and
  
• AT-ST driver (belt, boots).
  
• more figures?
  

See the pic below, kindly provided by Ozio.

[i]LL Madine: Glossy boots and matt boots


ACCESSORIES:
The LL General Madine came with a staff which looks very similar to the Kenner staff. On close examination you can see clearly that the LL staff is cast in a softer (less detailed) plastic which is intensely white.
Note: Kenner also produced these staffs in soft plastic but they were not that intensely white.

Madine Staff: Kenner (left), Lili Ledy (right).

Sweet, great work.

INTRODUCTION:
In the 80s, Kenner exported overstock accessories to Mexico to be packed together with Lili Ledy figures on “Made in Mexico’ (MIM) cards which were subsequently exported back to the US. This was the case for the following figures (pic by Rog taken from this thread ).




There is a theory stating that Lili Ledy raised (had to raise?) her quality standards for these MIM figures as they were meant for the US market. This would have resulted in the usage of a better quality plastic and better paint apps. However so far this theory has never been supported by convincing evidence. The common view is therefore that the differences between Lili Ledy figures and MIM figures if any are not significant enough to make a real distinction. See for instance the quote below:

_Rog_ wrote:

 

As mentioned in that thread I don’t own all the Lili Ledy guys that correspond with my MIM figures but from what I have gathered, Gam. Guard, Nien Nunb, Chirpa, Logray, Lando Calrissian, Ree Yees, Darth Vader, Paploo & Lumat are all pretty much the same. There may be slight differences in quality of finish between MIM & Ledy with MIM being slightly better, but I’m guessing if you took the nicest Ledy Chirpa for example and stood it next to the worst MIM Chief, they would be equal in quality (the LL might even be better!).

So once a figure was pulled from its card – either Ledy or MIM - you basically ended up with a loose Lili Ledy figure. Only the accessories on the cards might differ. On MIM cards you could have Ledy or Kenner accessories, or even a combination of both.

You can read more about this subject in the interesting treads here and here.

So why this long introduction when discussing Lumat?

From the figures released on MIM cards, Lumat and Paploo were kind of special as they were not produced in any other factory besides Lili Ledy. Consequently both Ewoks can only be found on cards with the description “Made in Mexico” regardless of its origin (Kenner, Tri Logo, POTF) and off course on Lili Ledy cards.


Below you see a line-up of three Lumats, let’s call them A, B, C (going from left to right). All Lumat figures came without a date stamp and COO.

COO guide Lumat: Lumat came without a datestamp and COO.  


Lumat A, B, and C (from left to right).


Lumat A, B, and C (from left to right).


Lumat A, B, and C (from left to right).


Lumat A, B, and C (from left to right).


Lumat A, and C (from left to right).


DIFFERENCES:


Figures:

• Lumat A and C have a glossy mouth and nose. Lumat B has a dull paint applied here.
  
• No other differences observed.
  

Hood:

1. No differences in molding, colour and ‘feel’ of the plastic.  
   
2. Only the numbers inside the hood differ: 4,2,2 for respectively hood A, B, C. Nothing special here. These numbers were just used to mark the different moldings, so engineers were able to pinpoint quality issues to a certain molding.
   

Bow:

1. No differences in molding, colour and ‘feel’ of the plastic.
   

Quiver:

1. No differences in molding, colour and ‘feel’ of the plastic.
   
2. A few minor differences were spotted however:
   - Quiver A: Arrow points partly painted in creamy white
   - Quiver B: Arrow points fully painted in bright white
   - Quiver C: Arrow points fully painted in creamy white
   

Is there any difference between a Lumat coming from a LL card (a 'true' Ledy) and a Lumat from any other card?  

Lumat C was sold as a Lili Ledy figure complete with LL accessories. Lumat A and B were never sold as Ledy, so I think it is safe to assume they originated from other cards.


Suppose the glossy/dull mouth and nose is a distinctive Lili Ledy trait. It is a small difference but anything will do for Ledy addicts like me, as long as it is consistent. . Does it hold?
The answer is NO. Though Lumat C (the 'true' Ledy figure) has glossy paint, Lumat A has glossy paint as well.

Ok how about the painting on the quivers then? Are the fully painted arrows a distinctive Lili Ledy trait?
The answer is NO again. Lumat C has this trait but this is also the case for Lumat B.
To make things more confused: In the pic below you see a MIM Lumat and cut card LL Lumat. Here the LL Lumat has partly painted arrow points (in contrast to Lumat C), whereas the MIM Lumat has fully painted arrow points. :scratch:

MIM Lumat (left), LL cut card Lumat (right). Picture from Jason aka Sacko.


IMO we are just looking at small batch to batch variations within the Ledy Lumat line. Once taken off from their card there is no way to tell the difference between a ‘true’ Lili Ledy coming from a Ledy card and a Lumat which was released on any other card.

CONCLUSIONS:

1. All Lumats are Lili Ledy.
   
2. The dull/glossy mouth (and nose) are just minor Ledy variations. These are pretty common for LL, just think about Prune Face with glossy/dull eye patch, Madine with glossy/dull boots. It is an urban myth you can use these small differences to make a distinction between a ‘true’ Lili Ledy coming from a Ledy card and a Lumat which was released on any other card.
   
3. The same thing applies for the subtle quiver variations.
   

I guess the same conclusions are valid for Paploo. The small observed differences (see AJ's pics on page 2) are probably small variations within the Lili Ledy line as well.

What do you think guys?

This is hands down one of the most informative threads going!

Its also great to see all the loose collectors getting involved posting and sharing knowledge

5000 Kudos points going Marcos way

Honestly really good job its great seeing all the comparison pictures!

I'm late - I know - but here is something to add for Madine:

You can find a Kenner version with Hong Kong only coo with moulded face - so you need to be carefully when buying a "Ledy Madine". You can also find a Kenner "soft" (less detailed) version of his staff. Personally I'm unable to see any difference between the less detailed Kenner staff and the Ledy version.

Uli

Idefix13 wrote:

I'm late - I know - but here is something to add for Madine:

You can find a Kenner version with Hong Kong only coo with moulded face - so you need to be carefully when buying a "Ledy Madine". You can also find a Kenner "soft" (less detailed) version of his staff. Personally I'm unable to see any difference between the less detailed Kenner staff and the Ledy version.

Uli

Hi Uli

Don't worry about being late, honestly every TIG member who makes a contribution here about any given figure is always right on time.

Thanks for the info: Now I know I have to pick up a moulded face Medine having the same COO as the Ledy variant to make a better comparison pic. Is this a common variant?

I will also look for a Kenner ''soft'' staff.

You agree about the conclusions on Lumat?

Well all Lumats are LL - I'm fine with that but you could have written it shorter my friend

Uli

LOL

Yeah I first wanted to present some supporting evidence before drawng any conclusions.

Just my bad habbit, I'm afraid. I can't promise it won't happen again.

Here is a picture of my LL Madine (right) to the Kenner version (left). Both have a HK only coo and moulded faces:



You can use it until you found one for your personal comparision shot if you want.

Uli

Great comparisson shot Uli. No need to post another.

What do you think, compared to his molded face brother, the Ledy Madine has:
- lighter grey beard
- pale blue instead of dark blue eyes
- glossy instead of matt black gloves and boots.
- glossy instead of matt blue sleeves
- a darker grey suit


So apart from the head the differences seem to be the same as when compared to the molded beard Madine.