Catch up here.
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1087817/

and discuss?

Honestly...after watching AJ in action the other day, it just made me laugh, there has to be an easier way right?


* when I say laugh, I mean I love the dedication by some of you guys, just trying to think of a few ways to make it a bit easier for you in your quest, that's all

I am not against repros really, because sometimes you just got figures that are slightly off the scale you want them to be as collectible but you cannot bring yourself to use them with your beat up toys and rather save the good weapons for more collectible graded figures. That is how i see it.

Junk with junk- good stuff with good stuff.

But that being said what is happening is far different than that. Lately i have seen very reputable dealers selling a ton of weapon repros on their own or are breaking the toys apart , selling the figure and then the weapon separately to make more cash, and or selling the figure with repros and selling the weapon separately to make cash which leads to proliferation of repros. I find that kind of practice under handed and scummy. One figure will end up with someone and then be sold again ( maybe several times ) and maybe end up in the hand of a less knowledgeable person who will sell it as genuine which turns out to be a fake weapon or accessory.

I think i got my hands in a good time to collect because the weapon and accessory situation will only get worse as we go. And paying AFA prices just to get a genuine weapon seems a non sense to me. There are still a lot of honest seller that will offer good figures with their weapons but i see their numbers dwindling.

Personally i would want to sell repro weapons. It would just undermine the fan base. You best bet if you want weapons is to buy cases ( Vader cases, vinyl cases ) full of figure with their weapons and you are all set. Most of these "fire sale" will contain the genuine accessories if you are looking for them. You can also resell what you don't need.

I have seen people trying to sell repros weapons and or r2-d2 pop up with repro sticker on the last 17 and that is the worst and again i find that practice scummy.

In general. For collectors, no to repros. If you play with beaters, why not.

so 50-50 in the end....

I didn't read the RS thread but here's my 2 cents;

The only , and I mean only, time I think a repro is okay is if it's laughably different. Imperial blasters in red, Vibroblade in purple. If not, cast with the word "repro" across the side. Outside of that, I'm not for it.

The issue really isn't the repros, it's the ability to pass them off as fakes. If the repros started off as easy to spot fakes I don't think anyone would've card TBH. It's the way they've crept into the dark side over the years.

Another point of view from me:

I started collecting roughly a year and a half ago. I am well over the halfway mark now and if i had just concentrated on the figures i would probably be close to be done by now. A lot of times i had to buy figures with repros because i felt that the seller had the figure i wanted and the weapon would be easy to track most of the time. That is how i collect. Figure first then weapon. If i get a real weapon it is a bonus for me. However this formula did not apply to all my toys. Example. I wanted a Jedi Luke with all genuine weapons and i got it but i made sure it was in the description and i used this site to check the weapons when i got them and most of the time what i was sold was accurately describe and i was fine by that. All i had to do is turn around, by a lot, a case, or a bunch of genuine weapons and i am able to complete the figure. I am not that obsessed that the weapon that comes with the toy had to come from the original bubble or toy it came with. You have to compromise and "weapon bash" sometimes.

Ok all cool, this is how i work. But like i said earlier, more of these repros are popping up and it really limits your venue if you collect. It comes down to the age old question as to:

should we finger the repros resellers big time or not?

I have seen a few that i bought from go from barely having any and now selling bulks of them. And these are well respected dealers in the community. Should we point the finger at them now?

Its like drugs, we tolerate it but when it hits home its unpleasant and most of the time you know who is selling the stuff to begin with but still you allow it, even it it damages people around you. If you do not take action then it continues and spreads. But you know the guy and he does this for a living. Should you cut him off form his cash or let him be and let him eventually get caught by his own fault?

This site helps us identify the fakes weapons accessories from the good ones but isn't it time to actually tell people who to watch for but in a stern manner that means something to make a difference?

big dilemma hey?

cheers

got to go to bed now, work tomorrow...

DarthBerizing wrote:

I didn't read the RS thread but here's my 2 cents;

The only , and I mean only, time I think a repro is okay is if it's laughably different. Imperial blasters in red, Vibroblade in purple. If not, cast with the word "repro" across the side. Outside of that, I'm not for it.

The issue really isn't the repros, it's the ability to pass them off as fakes. If the repros started off as easy to spot fakes I don't think anyone would've card TBH. It's the way they've crept into the dark side over the years.

Only good for selling is it?

Obviously some of these guys (repro makers/sellers) aren't going to stop doing what they are doing. Having at least some of them onside surely must be better than off. Especially the guys who seem to be making parts/weapons on a consistant basis. Would save you guys chasing your tails a lot, imo. Heck they may even start alerting you guys to other repro sellers who come on the market...birds of a feather flock together and all.

Maybe you could hold a repro amnesty

Josh wrote:

Maybe you could hold a repro amnesty

imagine the bonfire for that!



Looks like you're talking yourself into the new job of UN negotiator for Repros and Accessories Police Josh

Fakers working openly & marking stuff as 'repro' is a responsible way forward. They could then get endorsements from the forums. I just think at the moment they don't want to put "Repro" stamps on their work as they know it will kill off some of their trade. Imo they're all too happy to sell stuff with original mold numbers/letters and circles so they can be passed off down the line as genuine. Those fake XWing canopies and laser cannons can add $$ to a loose ship/mib. I'd love to believe they'd be happy to work with a forum like TIG - and there's no reason why that couldn't be tried... actually I believe TIG already tried this once but the 'seller' ended up going off the eBay radar.

You have to be careful as to what you wish for. The more you open the door to this kind of "trade" the more junk will end up on the market. To a new collector it wont matter when he or she starts but after a while you start to catch up and understand that you are getting scammed by paying the same price for the toy with fake weapons as the same toy with his real genuine weapons or accessories and you feel cheated.

Also if collectors are working hard to get a genuine toy. Why should the reseller not do some hard work to sell full genuine toys. It should not always be on the shoulders of the collectors to make the effort of research and the reseller should not always be able to take the easy way out.

We should be hard line on this so that less comes in the market. If we start to relax on this i can bet you that you are going to see:

A: toys sold with repros ( of course )

B: Genuine weapons and accessories sold by themselves which doubles the total value of a figure on what you should have paid in the first place.

example: seller selling a Luke stormtrooper with his gun and selling the helmet separately claiming that the helmet is genuine so to instill fear of getting a fake helmet thus commanding a premium for the helmet that should be included with the original toy to begin with.

Or: seller doing the same selling scheme as above but with a pop-up R2-D2 that has a fake sticker but trying to command prices as if it was the real deal.

The figures with lightsaber "seem" to be the most prone to get that sort of treatment since sabers are easier to produce and some sellers employ the sales mechanics above to double their profits.

just sad....

a lot of reputable dealers are already doing what i have mentioned above and more. I know this for a fact since i probably checked most of the regulars sellers on ebay by now. Lets not make it easier for them.

cheers.

Artoo_Detour wrote:

Josh wrote:

Maybe you could hold a repro amnesty

imagine the bonfire for that!

Artoo_Detour wrote:

Josh wrote:

Looks like you're talking yourself into the new job of UN negotiator for Repros and Accessories Police Josh

Artoo_Detour wrote:

Fakers working openly & marking stuff as 'repro' is a responsible way forward. They could then get endorsements from the forums. I just think at the moment they don't want to put "Repro" stamps on their work as they know it will kill off some of their trade. Imo they're all too happy to sell stuff with original mold numbers/letters and circles so they can be passed off down the line as genuine. Those fake XWing canopies and laser cannons can add $$ to a loose ship/mib. I'd love to believe they'd be happy to work with a forum like TIG - and there's no reason why that couldn't be tried... actually I believe TIG already tried this once but the 'seller' ended up going off the eBay radar.

It just seems a sensible way forward considering that it doesn't look like the problem is going away. And I don't think it is just a case of "If you can't beat them join them" either. Just trying to stay ahead of it instead of always chasing your tails like I said.

There will always be a "demand" for reproductions ie. for use with customs or for our kids to play with .....
Prohibition just doesn't work unfortunately. A compromise to 'drill a small hole' in all existing reproductions is a start. ( a big bonfire isn't realistic - & think of the environment )

" I will try to include some emblem or small mark in the items in the future for identifying them better, but unfortunately I can do little for stopping dishonest resellers "
I/we do try to 'work' with sellers but at the end of the day we can only control what we do as individuals.

James is realistic about this and he is right. You can talk to people but cannot control their actions at the end of the day.

The only real good way to beat those people is to educate collectors about what is fake and what is genuine and ask the right questions when buying. New collectors will fall into the repro trap for a while and when educated change their mind when getter more serious. The best thing people can do is get the word out that sites like this one exists to help people out. I am happy to be a member of this site and have learned a lot and i am a better collector for being here.

cheers!

I don't think the sting can be taken out of repro's. I hesitantly accepted them as inevetable and a pollution of the hobby, and that is the best I can ever do.

As I mentioned before in similair threads, I just cannot get my head around the fact that people want to buy knock-offs and display them along the real stuff. What are you implying then ? "Look at me, I got a complete collection, oh, wait, half of it is repro, as I did not want to search or pay for the real deal. But still, cool eh ? "

For me collecting is getting the real deal, and accepting you will probably never have the real holy grails, but there is always that small chance you run into one. It's the thrill of the hunt.

As for the pollution: Even if you think you have an 'acceptable' reason to put reproductions in your collection, or in your house (pointing to the reason for children playing with them), they WILL inadvertenly be mixed up along the real stuff and get sold. Even sellers that know for 99.9% sure they have a repro still put in their auction 'Not sure if it's repro' (check $bay) just in the odd chance some poor schmuck thinks he gets the deal of a lifetime. Let alone the people that purposely sell repros as real (just search for DT and Vinyl Jawa).

Just my few cents, but IMHO there is NO way repro's can co-exist in the hobby whatever you try to do to mitigate the problem all due to one reason: People are greedy, and repro's mean money so they will get exploited and real collectors are shafted.

Cheers,
Shoenix

as i have said before " sometimes" it is inevitable that you would get repros. I have bought figures with repro guns because the figure itself is in the grade i needed and frankly people would look more at the figure than the gun. If you are a perfectionist like me on the figure then guns can become secondary in priority. If i would have 2 deals and one has the figure i want for dirt cheap minus the weapon and the other has the toy plus the weapon but at super expensive prices then i would take the cheap figure with repro gun and then look into buying a beater with its original weapon or even buy a case with figures and weapons in them to complete my proper toy. But that is how i work, some people would not collect that way but i do and i have mnaged to keep my loose collecting at a decent price for every buy i get. Ok i paid premium on some rarer figures but not AFA like pricing for complete loose figure.

That being said and repeating myself , i would say that the worse offenders would probably be the repros in the POTF wave, a pop up saber can be very costly if you get scammer by a genuine toy and a repro saber, this guy as well for luke stormie helmet and other guns in that wave. I am not in full swing in that wave yet. I only got a Anakin so far so i did not get any unpleasant surprises.

I plan on getting the toys from the original trilogy waves first then falling into POTF, and then maybe droids and ewoks but my main priority is the first 3 films...

the only thing i can say in the end of this wall of text is if you dont like repro then dont buy at all from people selling repros... harder to do than you think....

Okay I think some of you are missing the point I am trying to make. We all get repro's are here to stay, aren't really for purists etc etc. What I am saying is promote the repro sellers that are the big players in the game and that do mark their items as such. It would be incentive for them to do the right thing if it meant more business would come their way as a result.
The fact is it's a part of the hobby now. What you need to be doing is working out ways to work with it instead of against it all the time. Demonising repro sellers like what is usually done is only going to make some of these guys more determined to try and pass off repro's as original imo, especially some of the ones who may not have even had that sort of intention originally.

Josh wrote:

Okay I think some of you are missing the point I am trying to make. We all get repro's are here to stay, aren't really for purists etc etc. What I am saying is promote the repro sellers that are the big players in the game and that do mark their items as such. It would be incentive for them to do the right thing if it meant more business would come their way as a result.
The fact is it's a part of the hobby now. What you need to be doing is working out ways to work with it instead of against it all the time. Demonising repro sellers like what is usually done is only going to make some of these guys more determined to try and pass off repro's as original imo, especially some of the ones who may not have even had that sort of intention originally.

I understand your point. But its like saying, legalize pot because its everywhere. It just will end up hurting people in the end, no matter how many good intentions you may have or how rational you think people may be. Saying ok to repros will give the green light to mass produce the darn things. Educating people is the way to go.

Aren't they being mass produced already?

The reason the drug trade is worth so much and can be very violent is because it is illegal. Take the criminal element out of it and there would be a lot less crime asscoiated with it. Just look what happened with the prohibition laws in the U.S. Gave rise to the modern day gangsta didn't it?
It's like a controversial idea to farm Rhino for their horns. If you cut it off at the right place it grows back. Then you can start selling it for a lot less, thus taking out the incentive for poachers to go and neck wild Rhino for their horns. If it's worth fuck all they aint going to do it now are they?
I know thats not really the same things as what we are discussing here with repro's...but the idea behind it is. Yeah you are still cutting off the horn, but at least the Rhino is still alive. It's a lot better than poachers doing it that's for sure, but it's a compromise that needs to be made to ensure the survival of wild populations.

Ok, just to clear my last post from my usual ranting against repros :

..... there is NO way repro's can co-exist in the hobby whatever you try to do to mitigate the problem all due to one reason: People are greedy, and repro's mean money so they will get exploited and real collectors are shafted.

^^^^--- It's just like telling the repo makers : Please be nice!