I was doing my morning troll on Ebay and saw a few AFA graded items. I thought to myself that, barring rarity or need for authentication (VC Jawa, DT Luke e.g.) an AFA75 or even AFA80 MOC or loose figure is basically an item I could pick up loose in similar shape.

So my question is , at what level does the AFA grade no longer carry weight? Looking at 75 and 80 grade MOCs I think I could buy the same card in ungraded form and get the same quality.

Thoughts?

I agree on the 75-80, maybe 85. You can find plenty of nice mint stuff in those grades ungraded, unless its rare items like Ledy's and such.

80 for sure!!!

Some 75s may have to much paint loss!!!!

From what I have seen an 80 is quite acceptable, a strong piece with some minor flaws.

I try to get ungraded stuff in as good condition as I can but sometimes its not possible, luckily some of those items do (for some reason) get graded and then they turn up way under value for a graded piece

Edit-If I were to buy a graded piece I think 75 would be the lowest grade I would go unless it was that Ledy 60 lol

Joe, have I mentioned how much I love your avatar???

I honestly have such a hard time with grading. Not the usual "AFA Debate" type stuff, but the inconsistencies are incredible to me.

Case in point. I have two AFA figures in my collection. One is a 12bk R2 AFA 70 with subgrades of: C60 B80 F85. The other is a Tri-Logo Rebel Commando AFA 60 with subs of: C85 B60 F85. Basically both have the same sub grades, but two very different ending grades. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Back on topic, I think you could easily find AFA 80 condition figures ungraded. And truthfully, I try to avoid AFA as much as possible.

For me most of the MOC i hunt would get AFA 80's and many may even get 85's.

Having owned a number of graded MOC's over the years (less so these days ill only buy an AFA if its the only way to get the specific MOC i want and then i wont pay extra for the fact its graded) i have seen some terrible 80's and some cash fresh 80's I have also seen some very poor 85's and some amazing 75's so i find MOC AFA grading to be pretty inconsistent.

Jay

Without starting off a debate of anti-AFA...

Do you think the graders grade is any way influcenced by who the owner of the piece is? This might contribute to some variation in scoring. Maybe? But I am sure I heard that all pieces are graded anonymously to prevent this from happening.

To answer you question though John, I have some lovely Tri-logo Lukes which scored a AFA 80 but in my opinion in lovely condition. I would be quite happy now to buy a piece at this level where as before it had to be at least 85.

RebelChris wrote:

I honestly have such a hard time with grading. Not the usual "AFA Debate" type stuff, but the inconsistencies are incredible to me.

That is really an area where I think AFA fails, but the only way it could be consistent, is if the same grader was the one grading everything. One grader could consider an item an 80 and another would say it is an 85. It is the same as when a seller can say a figure is a C9, but to different buyers it could be that C9 or to another a C8. Really, the only time I would consider a graded item would be, if it was a steal of a deal or for authentication. I can get a nice case from Oscar for a fraction of the grading cost and it displays the same.


In answer to John's original question, I would say anything in the below the 80 range like you said.

shawn_k wrote:

RebelChris wrote:

I honestly have such a hard time with grading. Not the usual "AFA Debate" type stuff, but the inconsistencies are incredible to me.

That is really an area where I think AFA fails, but the only way it could be consistent, is if the same grader was the one grading everything. One grader could consider an item an 80 and another would say it is an 85. It is the same as when a seller can say a figure is a C9, but to different buyers it could be that C9 or to another a C8. Really, the only time I would consider a graded item would be, if it was a steal of a deal or for authentication. I can get a nice case from Oscar for a fraction of the grading cost and it displays the same.


In answer to John's original question, I would say anything in the below the 80 range like you said.

That's a really good point Shawn. One man's 80 is another man's 85 or 75. Which to me, only leads to more problems down the road. You see it all the time for loose figures in the Watch Out sections. Seller said it was in "x" condition, and to me it's more like "y" condition.

I think a good rule of thumb is (again, like you said) to not overpay for the AFA grade. Know your ballpark prices and go into the deal that way. And if it doesn't work out, there will always be another.

I did a comparison once on two 85's, they were the same palitoy card and figure. One had a crease, edge wear, the bubble wasn't straight and even had missing print on the back of the card behind the bubble. The other was flawless yet they even had the same subs. I would say 85/80 are somtimes not even graded correctly anyway. People are blinded by the grade and don't see past the numbers sometimes.

I'd say 80-85

iam never been on the look out for garded items , but those that i have seen are alway's priced higher because of the sticker , i think some people dont even look at the grade , just aslong it's in a case with a sticker , it should be more valuebale

i personly dont care for condidtions , it just has to be something i dont have , and priced to the condition

i have one afa item and iam looking to sell or trade it , anyone after a afa 90 kez iban

Without getting into the AFA debate.... anything 80/85 ( FOR KENNER!!!)

Normally 85 for me, although would consider 80 for very rare figures.

RebelChris wrote:

I honestly have such a hard time with grading. Not the usual "AFA Debate" type stuff, but the inconsistencies are incredible to me.

That is really an area where I think AFA fails, but the only way it could be consistent, is if the same grader was the one grading everything. One grader could consider an item an 80 and another would say it is an 85. It is the same as when a seller can say a figure is a C9, but to different buyers it could be that C9 or to another a C8. Really, the only time I would consider a graded item would be, if it was a steal of a deal or for authentication. I can get a nice case from Oscar for a fraction of the grading cost and it displays the same.


In answer to John\'s original question, I would say anything in the below the 80 range like you said.[/quote]

Talking about inconsistencies .....

Very difficult for me to understand that a serious company that grades museum quality toys ( and that is their main task) do this kind and serious inconsistencies........ CAN YOU FIND THE DIFFERENCES??






MAKING LONG STORY SHORT.....all 3 are SW 21 Back´s .... on the first death star droid the AFA sticker reads ESB 21 Back....WTF??????... , now talking about grades , the first one is 75 and the other 2 are 85 ??????? .... again the first one has 75,85,85 ; 2nd one 80,85,85 ; 3rd one 85,85,85 . ..... somebody explain me?????

The only thing I seen was the hang tab on the left one looks a tad rough than the other 2.

Chris_J wrote:

The only thing I seen was the hang tab on the left one looks a tad rough than the other 2.

WOW!!!!! that was fast CHRIS!...... you got it right..... actually that is the only difference.... and it goes from 75 to 85??

Let me get a closer pic of the AFA sticker!

Damn, I'm good! Hell, Merlin, I thought it might be something major you had to look real close for. Another thing, I was figuring it would be that big ugly ass TRU sticker would lower the grade. Thank god I don't do graded stuff.

Chris_J wrote:

Damn, I'm good! Hell, Merlin, I thought it might be something major you had to look real close for. Another thing, I was figuring it would be that big ugly ass TRU sticker would lower the grade. Thank god I don't do graded stuff.

That is what I´m talking about Chris!!! ...you are so right, that´s the only difference !!!! , and the grade go from 85 to 75 !! , with 2 subs of 85,85 ...WTF?? , glad that I don´t grade them, because AFA will get in this one an F- ( ESB ?????? , as everybody can see is from the SW series!!!!) , or I can be wrong, again ???? ..LOL!

Somebody didn't have their morning coffee that day. Thats why I like my grading system. If its not looking like its been run over by a truck in a tornado, its an 85-90.

AFA grades are good for reference, but as said before each guys has his own opinion on grading and what's someone consider an 80, so grade it higher or lower.

I even noticed 2 graded figures on the bay a few days ago, both same figure on same card, both graded with the following subs C80 B85 F85 and the 1st one was an AFA80 and the 2nd one was an AFA85? Both for sale for the same amount offcourse.

merlin wrote:

Chris_J wrote:

Damn, I'm good! Hell, Merlin, I thought it might be something major you had to look real close for. Another thing, I was figuring it would be that big ugly ass TRU sticker would lower the grade. Thank god I don't do graded stuff.

That is what I´m talking about Chris!!! ...you are so right, that´s the only difference !!!! , and the grade go from 85 to 75 !! , with 2 subs of 85,85 ...WTF?? , glad that I don´t grade them, because AFA will get in this one an F- ( ESB ?????? , as everybody can see is from the SW series!!!!) , or I can be wrong, again ???? ..LOL!

The ONLY reason I can see for them labeling it as an ESB card is because of the secret figure offer (Bossk, I think). Still not really an excuse, but I could still see it happening.

I was thinking about this a little bit more last night. And I think personal views play a lot into the grade (like what's been said before). What I mean is maybe Grader A doesn't like bubble damage, Grader B doesn't like card damage, and Grader C tries to get near the average of the subs. After taking into account all the minor differences (sub grades) they look at the over all aesthetic of the MOC. And based on their personal tastes grade accordingly. That's the only thing I could come up with why some AFA figures with virtually the same sub grades have a totally different ending grade.

That makes sense to me Chris. I seem to remember Tom saying that some more videos were coming, showing how AFA worked on the inside. Even though I don't collect AFA, I would be interested to see the whole process, from figure received to the final encasing.