coachk28 wrote:

What about U grading the weapon/survival packs???

What, get each weapon graded?

Chris_J wrote:

coachk28 wrote:

What about U grading the weapon/survival packs???

What, get each weapon graded?

Don't give them ideas. I can see it now with U90 Blasters, Gas Masks, and backpacks.

I soooo want a U95 gas mask!!!!

The good thing about rehashing this topic is that it does give food for thought, I certainly recommend people to read the entire paradox thread that Jay linked, I sat in chat for a good hour last night with Coach going through it and I am thankful to say it has changed his mind!

One saved - 99,999,999 to go!

Seriously, if a thread like this can put one person off of U grading I support the idea of keeping it in the public eye, its a shame when a great thread just dies like the RS one, it should be stickied for the good of the community.

Good thread Coach - in a way you saved yourself

Joe_O wrote:

The good thing about rehashing this topic is that it does give food for thought, I certainly recommend people to read the entire paradox thread that Jay linked, I sat in chat for a good hour last night with Coach going through it and I am thankful to say it has changed his mind!

One saved - 99,999,999 to go!

Seriously, if a thread like this can put one person off of U grading I support the idea of keeping it in the public eye, its a shame when a great thread just dies like the RS one, it should be stickied for the good of the community.

Good thread Coach - in a way you saved yourself

I actually just sent in two survival kits to be graded as U. Guess that puts you back to 100,000,001

No seriously I am in the camp of not personally getting anything U graded but for the sake of counterpoint I do think the creation of a new genre does breathe life into to collecting ecosystem and creates movement. Movement among collectors who may otherwise have left the hobby, movement of collections to focus on other things (sell beaters, buy pre-production) , movement among the purist (buying MOC to save them) and of course possibly enticing newer collectors as people can be even on the playing field.

To also be honest , and I wouldn't print this on R/S just because of the grief, even with the U grade I don't think we will run out of MOC's anytime soon. Yes I know of the DT Ben and Vader saga but that was an anomaly in every sense of the word. I think we are a ways away from needing preservation status as a whole. People have been opening beaters and such for years when they were looking for mint loose figures. It's just that the "U" grade gave perspective on what it does.

Again this is merely a counterpoint. No pitchforks and torches please

No pitchforks intended John, but I do want to make a few counterpoints as well.

Darthberizing wrote:

I actually just sent in two survival kits to be graded as U. Guess that puts you back to 100,000,001

No seriously I am in the camp of not personally getting anything U graded but for the sake of counterpoint I do think the creation of a new genre does breathe life into to collecting ecosystem and creates movement. Movement among collectors who may otherwise have left the hobby, movement of collections to focus on other things (sell beaters, buy pre-production) , movement among the purist (buying MOC to save them) and of course possibly enticing newer collectors as people can be even on the playing field.

I do agree that broadening your collecting horizons is a good thing, but why not branch into other ares of interest like coins, proofs, store displays, mailers, foreign MOC, etc. And those examples just cover more toy related items. There are a lot of other niche areas that are cheap and fun to collect because of no demand. I like looking at many of those collections because it isn't more of the same. I guess the point I'm trying to say is there are lots of ways to collect vintage items without the need of another company coming in and creating a market for their items. From what I have noticed the U collectors just simply decide 85s aren't good enough, so now they need 90s, so they start sending more figures to AFA to be opened until they find that 90 and sell off the ones that don't make that cut. They aren't moving into other interests, but just collecting the same thing, but with a different label.

Darthberizing wrote:

To also be honest , and I wouldn't print this on R/S just because of the grief, even with the U grade I don't think we will run out of MOC's anytime soon. Yes I know of the DT Ben and Vader saga but that was an anomaly in every sense of the word. I think we are a ways away from needing preservation status as a whole. People have been opening beaters and such for years when they were looking for mint loose figures. It's just that the "U" grade gave perspective on what it does.

Again this is merely a counterpoint. No pitchforks and torches please

Why do we have to wait until there are no MOC left to be worried about this? I personally would hope we would never need a preservation status as a whole. I don't want things to get to that point. I do agree that some have opened MOC/baggies in the past. I will be the first to admit in opening a few myself back when they were even more affordable and plateful. However, I think in most cases you would be able to count on one or two hands how many figures in said loose collection were opened that way. What about the U collector who has an entire set of U loose figures. Now we're talking about roughly 100 figures that were ripped open and then if more people start feeling the need to have a collection like that, the number keeps going up there.

That 100 figure would be more if they are looking for the U90. Whats the ratio of really finding a figure in 90 when it comes off a card? 1:50 or more? Heres a new motto, Fuck the whales, save the MOC.

Chris_J wrote:

That 100 figure would be more if they are looking for the U90. Whats the ratio of really finding a figure in 90 when it comes off a card? 1:50 or more? Heres a new motto, Fuck the whales, save the MOC.

That would make a good signature.

No pitchforks from me either, promise!

Grading is one thing, I think that can certainly weed its way into most hobbies and for the most part just exist along side normal ungraded collecting.

However, due to the almost endless boundaries as far as Vintage collecting goes, literally there are tonnes of avenues to go down if you get bored of one area, I don't think its fair of AFA to have created a "Genre" as you said John.

I think when you alter things that have survived such a long time to just "create" something to collect it's rather sad and I don't think its needed, I don't really see AFA grading , especially U grading as a genre so to speak, its a bastardization of collectibles to satisfy peoples needs for the following :

Mint figures
No reproductions
Acrylic cases
Rarity

If I address each of those I can quite easily pick apart those reasons and show other alternatives to AFA.

Mint figures - they are out there, it might take a bit of looking or a little extra cash per figure but you can find many great sellers who sell great looking unplayed with figures, time = patience = something many AFA collectors don't seem to exhibit.

Reproductions - Again, time + effort = win! Take this site for example, www.imperialgunnery.com - it took Jay and many other collaborators months of work to seek out all known weapon variations , catalog and photograph them, purchase web space and then make it free for people to go through their collections and weed out these nasty reproduction weapons. Loose collecting really isn't a tough road to go down is it? Do many of us need someone to hold our hands along the way?

Acrylic cases- I love them! Most people do, AFA cases are great, they make the figures look fantastic...... Then again why do we have to take them out of their own and original packaging to put them in acrylic? Why can't we use loose figures to put into acrylic cases by AFA or Oscar or many other places eager to knock you some custom acrylic work up?

Rarity- Creating rarity is a dangerous thing, it causes people to overpay for worthless items and is a kind of lie that people don't want to admit.
What's rarer - a 1 of 5 known proof card or a U90 Klaatu ? I am guessing no-one needs to answer that one..

Lastly, from watching events unfold over the last 5 or so years it does seem that certain wealthy people who went down the U grading route have set a little trend, firstly they collected 85 or 90's , then once that set was complete it went to U85 and then finally realising AFA aren't going to whip out loads of 95 grades (to keep prices of high grade stuff high) they settled on this U90 craze.

That is the kind of keeping up with the Jones's mentality that I can't understand, we know its happening, because all of the big AFA guys did the same thing, they completed one set of U grades and then sold them to finance higher U grades. Why? to have the best collection ? Who is going to care ? I sure don't care if your Yak face is superior to mine!

Another long winded post by me again

Quote :

Mint figures - they are out there, it might take a bit of looking or a little extra cash per figure but you can find many great sellers who sell great looking unplayed with figures, time = patience = something many AFA collectors don't seem to exhibit.

Also to elaborate on that a little more, one thing people forget time and time again is that unopened toys does not result in getting a mint figure! Many times these toys never left the factory in more than a C7 -C8 state anyway so why open things that are probably in worse condition than ones that are out there that haven't been played with?

That was something that was unfortunately realised by Rulair, he turned his attentions to figures already graded as MOC with high figure subgrades to increase his chances of finding those U90's, the rest as you all know is history, I just hope it's history that we don't see repeated in the future.

The whole U grading existing MOC graded figures seems to have gone a bit quiet, I think that is either partly thanks to the thread on RS that exposed it or its gone underground, buying outside of ebay to lower the chances of being caught again.

It all sounds a bit dramatic and silly but we never thought we would see anyone doing such crazy things, I for one am sorry to know it was a reality.

I agree on the mint figure part, Joe. Whos to say that a MOC graded an 85 for the figure will still get a U85 when opened? By the time the figure gets back to AFA, it might be a U70-75 or even an 80 due to some unseen flaw they couldn't see when it was carded, like a yellow bubble might not show all the flaws the figure has/had.

With all this U grading, with U grading in mind the lovely fetters at AFA have included the cleaning option. They will now, for an additional charge polish your plastic if they think it will improve the grade! Frosting anyone?

To me, that should lower the grade since its been altered, its no longer original straight from the card.

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=5&Number=4117755&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1#4117755

Another batch bite the dust.

He was not long ago asking about the seal of that nice R2 whilst it was still carded

I was just looking at those!!!

I just seen that. Just makes you sick as hell to see something like that.

Especially those 12 backs!!!

They were solid!!!

Every one of those are nice cards worthy to be in a moc collection.

I wonder if he sold that $1,500 Weequay!!!

It's good for cardback collectors, if Alex hadn't got them- I would have. But yikes those are (were) in better condition than ANY of my MOCs

I was thinking of the German Leia, but I know all are gone by now.

It looks like he is also searching for a U graded Orange Hair Luke, it might be coincidence that he bought a 41 back ESB but I doubt it.

I hope he doesn't get his hands on the MOC AFA 70 because for sure that will be U graded if he does.

I know that for a fact. Any MOC in his hands will be U graded.

It's just like Safari animal hunters. It's really not the poachers fault, it is those that are willing to pay more for a U graded figure than 1 or more MOCs !! But I'd rather have a Lion on my wall than a live one in my backyard :scratch: