Hi Lads

Due to the recent potential high end items scam on Rebelscum Forum by Jason berry (RS username darkjediknight) I wanted to get your opinions on implementing a NEW / First Time Seller Policy here on TIG.

Firstly I take pride that TIG is a safe place to buy and sell and I think that’s because we are such a tight knit community ensures this and bar one or 2 incidents that were fully resolved we have had no problems but it is inevitable that at same stage a potential scammer (like the one(s) seen on RS) will try his luck here.

Here is what I propose -

If a new user who joins up who is not yet known to the collecting community or has not been vouched for by an established member must do the following in their first sales post to ensure that they own the item(s) for sale -

Take a picture of the item with a piece of paper in front of it showing their TIG Username and the date.

Here is an example of what i mean -



I believe although not full proof against all scamming techniques this will at least ensure that any newcomer wanting to sell an item will 100% own the piece and it stops the scammers who take pictures of items that they do not own off the net.

From my experience most scammers don’t own the pieces they try to sell so I feel that this would be well worth doing and if we went ahead and set this up as a policy then it would be easy for the moderators to ensure it’s followed.

As always thoughts / opinions are very welcome

Scam's are difficult to eliminate but we can certainly try to implement something. I have asked sellers in the past to retake pictures with various random items in the picture ie. a coin & pencil. A certain Aus ebayer was selling an item using a 'stolen' picture from the US so I asked him to retake the pic with a 50 cent coin in the shot (our 50 cent coin is pretty unique)- needless to say the sale never happened. My suggestion is extreme but if you have no feedback & no one knows you, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the seller to send the item & get payment once it is received. I know my first few trades/sales on RS I volunteered to send my items first and got payment after they got there.

Jay

We need to do something. I think we need to find something genuine that can't be faked or photoshopped.

Darthberizing wrote:

Jay

We need to do something. I think we need to find something genuine that can't be faked or photoshopped.

Well as an avid user of Photoshop myself there really is no way you can do the above type of picture without an incredible amount of patience, knowledge and skill! Even then there will be tell tale features that would highlight the image is faked via Photoshop so I do think this system for proving that someone owns an item is 99.9% full proof and you couldn't devise a better option.

To be fair I don’t think most of these fly by nights scammers could pull off the level of skill needed to try and fake this type of image and get it past our skilled team members they would just move on to an easier target for their scams.

Going to AJ's points there has been a number of occasions on RS where I have suspected a potential seller of not owning the items they have for sale its funny once you ask for a picture with a piece of paper on top of the item showing the date (or a message you ask them to write) plus their username you never hear from them again and they slink back into the shadows.

If somebody can come up with a better idea then of course ill 100% look at the new option on merit

As I said before this would only need to apply to people selling for the first time who have not sold anywhere on vintage forums previously, who can’t be vouched for by a member of the community and have zero feedback outside of eBay. If someone’s genuine they will be happy to do this for their first sale once they have received feedback from a buyer on the forum they won’t need to do this for future listings unless a moderator asks for it to be done.

I think it’s also prudent to ask NEW sellers who again are not known to the community to also list there eBay I.D.

The only reasons I’m thinking about this is 2 of my friends were inches away from been scammed by this latest RS scammer and many of my friends over the last couple of years have been ripped off by brand new sellers offering cherry pieces at low prices on RS.

I honestly think genuine community members wouldn’t have a problem with this rule for unknown NEW sellers but I wanted to put this thread out there to gauge everyone’s opinions



Cheers Jay

Jay

I agree 100%. I wasn't implying your idea could be victimized by photoshop either. I merely meant that a concrete consistant rule is a great way to keep bad sellers at bay.

I think its a good idea, if there was any doubt (i.e the picture still looked a bit dodgy) then people should request the same piece of paper pictured partially under the item and folded around the item.

I know it sounds like some silly initiation test but tbh if its for $$$ then you can't be too careful and NO genuine seller would or
should take offence at requests like that.

I like the idea, but if an genuine seller comes, and you need to ask a second picture with his username and date on a paper, then negotiate, the item will probably be snatched from under your nose....

Still like the idea tough.

Or another suggestion would be to photograph the item on an OPEN newspaper therefore it would be extremely hard and time consuming to replicate with an editing program, text, pictures etc, just get a few different angled shots on the same paper and you should be ok .

Ive seen this overcome on Ebay alot, Masking out water marks ect and it doesnt need to be photoshoped it can be a simple low tech approach



I know it looks a little dodgey but i threw it together in a min or too and also my camera picks up far to much detail where normal ones wouldent. Ive seen this done by printing out peoples photos then the tag put over the top and rephoto'd where i just did it quickly of the screen.

Again not meaning to have a dig at ur idea i just think it needs to be enhanced by other options at the same time. Ive done alot of work with ebay over 8 years and think im 'clued up' when it comes to trading but it wasnt more than 6 weeks ago i fell for a scam also.

Ideas :-

ID Tag on Photo for people with less than 10 Trade confirmations in feedback
Limit sellling items to people with 100+ post count
Limit selling items to people who have been with the forum 30+ days

No scammer going to waste that kind of time building up a reputation unless there going for a big score then there is no protection against it

(To also point out the work in this section/forum has been mentioned in countless ebay adverts ive seen stating the place to go to to look for authenticity advice ect and even in a few ebay disputes ive also seen, so hats off to u guys )

xxGANDALFxx wrote:

Ive seen this overcome on Ebay alot, Masking out water marks ect and it doesnt need to be photoshoped it can be a simple low tech approach



I know it looks a little dodgey but i threw it together in a min or too and also my camera picks up far to much detail where normal ones wouldent. Ive seen this done by printing out peoples photos then the tag put over the top and rephoto'd where i just did it quickly of the screen.

Again not meaning to have a dig at ur idea i just think it needs to be enhanced by other options at the same time. Ive done alot of work with ebay over 8 years and think im 'clued up' when it comes to trading but it wasnt more than 6 weeks ago i fell for a scam also.

Ideas :-

ID Tag on Photo for people with less than 10 Trade confirmations in feedback
Limit sellling items to people with 100+ post count
Limit selling items to people who have been with the forum 30+ days

No scammer going to waste that kind of time building up a reputation unless there going for a big score then there is no protection against it

(To also point out the work in this section/forum has been mentioned in countless ebay adverts ive seen stating the place to go to to look for authenticity advice ect and even in a few ebay disputes ive also seen, so hats off to u guys )

No offense all all Lee This is simply an open discussion for the community and i hope as many people as possible get involved the more input the better.

What i will add is there has been a number of cases where scammers (not on TIG itself yet but other forums) have joined up and then spent time getting invloved and building up a post count etc only for them to be working towards a scam so im not to in favour of that approach.

Plus we have many respected sellers / dealers on TIG with very little posts to there name as there main input is selling great items which of course we appreciate so i would hate any type of policy that could impact that.

I still think photos using either my technique or ideas like newspapers like Joe mentioned are the best way forward i say this bacause i have never been scammed in the last few years on forums and i know asking this of suspect sellers ultimately keep me safe

Jay

I think its a great idea to start something like this. Luckily I haven't been bit by a scammer, but I only deal with those I know or who are willing to send more photos of the items. If not, sorry for your luck, try selling it to someone else. But in light of the recent scams going on, this will help stop some of it by implying some kind of policy on here. RS should start doing the same thing.

This is a great idea and policy.I too dispise scammer's,let's do our best to keep them out and away from TIG.

Dan.

As mentioned above most genuine sellers will do what you ask to prove they are genuine, i like the idea of something being changed in the back ground such as user name or a newspaper

also if the new member is known by some of the members on here maybe they can as Jay said vouch for them

any thing that helps is a good thing even if it takes a little longer to sort out your sales post


Andy

jaymassive619 wrote:

Well as an avid user of Photoshop myself there really is no way you can do the above type of picture without an incredible amount of patience, knowledge and skill! Even then there will be tell tale features that would highlight the image is faked via Photoshop so I do think this system for proving that someone owns an item is 99.9% full proof and you couldn't devise a better option.

Thats not true Jay.....this lastet 2 minutes....and for 500 bucks I can probably invest half an hour...then its PERFECT!!!





paste and copy......correct ligthening....correct colors....make some shadows....done!

If I use a better pic from the paper (the paper is less sharp then the MOC).......and do it all more exactly....nobody would see!




Wolff

wbobafett wrote:

jaymassive619 wrote:

Well as an avid user of Photoshop myself there really is no way you can do the above type of picture without an incredible amount of patience, knowledge and skill! Even then there will be tell tale features that would highlight the image is faked via Photoshop so I do think this system for proving that someone owns an item is 99.9% full proof and you couldn't devise a better option.

Thats not true Jay.....this lastet 2 minutes....and for 500 bucks I can probably invest half an hour...then its PERFECT!!!





paste and copy......correct ligthening....correct colors....make some shadows....done!

If I use a better pic from the paper (the paper is less sharp then the MOC).......and do it all more exactly....nobody would see!




Wolff

Well i you can see clearly that one is photoshoped

I would be interested in seeing your best effort though bud the 30 min version

I havent got all the answers tbh but i know from personal experience that asking for pictures via this method when someone has seemed a bit shaky has ensured i havent be scammed over the years.

I do like the idea of having the item taken with a newspaper showing the date and the front page partially covering the item as well that would certainly be harder to fake!

Im not one for restriction i really arent this site is relaxed and the community very tight nit and thatsb how its should be

Im sure anything like this would only need to be reserved for any straight out new comers selling exspensive items with no previous user history

A golden rule for anyone to take on board is if it seems to good to be true then it probably is!!!

I would also like to add that apart from someone actually proving they have the item in hand, don't forget
people can still try and scam you by not sending it ..

I would just air on the side of caution with anyone who you can't get good feedback for, or if you have good
feedback and they are starting out, you could get them to send it on first and pay once it arrives, its risky for them
but equally risky for you buying from an unknown name.

Bottom line is just be careful and as Jay says, if its dirt cheap or very rare and its just come out of nowhere then
you should always be cautious. Gambles can pay off but many times a gamble can leave you broke!

ok 10 minutes...still visible...main problem is I have no MOC archive! Im a loose collector!

If I had a Moc pic in better solution it would work! The pics I have are all too bad....

wbobafett wrote:

ok 10 minutes...still visible...main problem is I have no MOC archive! Im a loose collector!

If I had a Moc pic in better solution it would work! The pics I have are all too bad....

well i have been a scanner operator for a while and did nothing else then correcting defects in photo's and i have to say, the easy'est tell tale is noticable by the way the paper lays over the bubble part. even if you a photoshop pro it's not easy to cover all the tell tales. but if you take a quick look, you'll probably get scammed....

the flash on the bubble is also not correct...but well as I said:

If you have Moc (to lay the paper on it and make a pic) and good pic of the rare Moc you wana "sell"...then the results will be damn good!


NEVERTHELESS:

The idea is good IMO...Asking for deatils is always a good idea. But mostly if you give a seller work on rare stuff (asking for additional pics) the deal goes to someone else....who pays emmidiatly.....thats a sad fact on RS!

Wolff

wbobafett wrote:

the flash on the bubble is also not correct...but well as I said:

If you have Moc (to lay the paper on it and make a pic) and good pic of the rare Moc you wana "sell"...then the results will be damn good!


NEVERTHELESS:

The idea is good IMO...Asking for deatils is always a good idea. But mostly if you give a seller work on rare stuff (asking for additional pics) the deal goes to someone else....who pays emmidiatly.....thats a sad fact on RS!

Wolff

To be fair 99.9% of the time if its someone selling rare stuff then they are already known / established to some degree anyway so tests like this arent needed. This should only be reserved for people who are brand new to forums selling cherry pieces for low prices straight out the traps so to speak like the guy did on RS looking at the watchout thread there and here it does seem he got a few peoples spider sense up by his behaviour anyway!

jaymassive619 wrote:

To be fair 99.9% of the time if its someone selling rare stuff then they are already known / established to some degree anyway so tests like this arent needed. This should only be reserved for people who are brand new to forums selling cherry pieces for low prices straight out the traps so to speak like the guy did on RS looking at the watchout thread there and here it does seem he got a few peoples spider sense up by his behaviour anyway!

I agree!

Didnt metioned because I thought we only talk about those new guys selling rare stuff!

[quote="Joe_O"]I would also like to add that apart from someone actually proving they have the item in hand, don't forget
people can still try and scam you by not sending it ..

IMO, Joe wrote the most important issue about scaming..... Not sending items ( or at least the correct items!!! , over the years I have learned that some people has been scamed by recieving things they don´t pay for.....EXAMPLE...a friend of mine paid for a SW Vinatge Jawa 12 back and received a TAC Jawa.......LOL!!!, his claim didn´t work becasue the seller argued that the item he sent was a Jawa ( of course it was a totally diferent JAWA!!!)

Its a good idea to try and protect people from scams but Im not sure how you are going to do it and have it fool proof.
How about video posts of the item for sale? Probably still fakeable but harder?