**Please note that I just posted this exact topic on another forum, but I fear that it will be deleted and shut down. I have also posted a copy here so if that thread is shut down we know why.**

Back on the 23 October 2009, the thread “Toltoys Cloth Cape Jawa?” was created in the ‘Vintage: Watch Out!’ section.

There was a good discussion about the possibility that there were certain features unique to the original Jawa figure released with a TT VC.

As everyone knows, I strongly believe that the TT VC Jawa figure has unique features not present in any other Jawa and furthermore was only released by Toltoys Australia. And reading past comments on this forum and other well respected SW action figure forums it is quite clear that my theory is shared with many collectors world wide.

However, the recent negativity and strong denial on the same topic which I raised made me wonder if there was a hidden agenda at hand? I mean surely these TT VC experts would have noticed the similarities between all the actual loose TT VC loose figures?

And now it actually makes sense. It appears, for some strange reason, that there are certain members on this forum who go out of their way to cover-up and protect the 'secrets' behind the TT VC loose Jawa.

Here is my evidence:

Quote :

[quote=Dax]There's a reason that not much information is currently published in the public domain regarding this subject as well. Anything that is common knowledge is often used by scumbags to make fakes and turn a profit at the expense of others. Just take a quick look through ebay for examples of counterfeit products marketed as 'repros' or 'recards'.

If you want something authenticated there are a number of services that will charge a fee to do this, or alternately there are several friendly collectors with expert knowledge who can let you know for free.

Personally I will never provide detailed measurements, data, photographs or knowledge on the finer points of the Australian vinyl caped Jawa because of my concerns about misuse.

To which there was the following reply:

Quote :

[quote=BobaFett77]I've looked through the collectors archive and have found a couple other sites as well with some info regarding authenticity of the few carded ones that were discovered a few years back. There has been very little information released on authenticating loose ones though.

I’m very intrigued with the fact that the figure was discovered and authenticated maybe 8 or so years ago yet there is still very little known about its origin and history (other than being released in Australia). It’s crazy that with all the time that has passed that a majority of the discussions I’ve seen about the figure are still speculative with little confirmed facts.

Quote :

[quote=Dax]There's a reason that not much information is currently published in the public domain regarding this subject as well. Anything that is common knowledge is often used by scumbags to make fakes and turn a profit at the expense of others. Just take a quick look through ebay for examples of counterfeit products marketed as 'repros' or 'recards'.

If you want something authenticated there are a number of services that will charge a fee to do this, or alternately there are several friendly collectors with expert knowledge who can let you know for free.

Personally I will never provide detailed measurements, data, photographs or knowledge on the finer points of the Australian vinyl caped Jawa because of my concerns about misuse.

Hey Dax, thanks for the response. Even though I would never use any info used to authenticate something as a means to counterfeiting, I do understand your position. I do however think with something like this that documented information being withheld would be a double edge sword. On one hand the info is being withheld from someone looking to use it for ill-gotten gain, on the other hand it leaves the true collectors out in the dark with little means to protect themselves from someone looking to deceive those who are not informed. I could do without all the repros/recards as well, but quite honestly, not giving honest collectors an avenue to educate themselves will not stop those who are out to deceive. That’s just my opinion though. More than anything else I’m just looking to educate myself for my future collecting wants without having to rely on someone else to hold my hand because I don’t know enough about a particular item I want to add to my collection. The first bit of advice I’ve gathered from more seasoned vintage collectors is “Do your homework before making a purchase!”

But this post says it all:

Quote :

[quote=Bjamin_S]

Quote :

[quote=BobaFett77]There has been very little information released on authenticating loose ones though

Given this figure's particular vulnerability to those without scruples, this has, as Dax has stated, been done on purpose.

I don't think it would be responsible to let anyone know any more than is out there already. Right now the system that we have with AFA authenticating them is probably working better than it would if every second guy cutting down a Ben Kenobi cape knew exactly what it was they were trying to do.

They claim to be covering up these secrets to avoid scammers abusing them. But I don't buy that excuse at all. If anything, scammers are more likely to abuse collectors if the general community is unaware of what to look for in authenticating genuine loose VC TT Jawas. And how are scammers going to make fake TT VC Jawas? Are they going to physically make the heads bigger and paint silver dots on the limbs?

Sorry, but I strongly support collectors sharing their Star Wars knowledge with other collectors world-wide. And I don't think that certain 'secrets' about unique characteristics of loose Jawas should be withheld from the collecting community.

This explains why I was attacked by these members. Because my innocent research was getting too close to the truth. They had to shut me down so my posts would be ignored. They did not want me sharing these secrets with everyone else. And they done a great job too. However my profession involves dealing with facts and evidence. I used these skills and I am now confident that I have revealed a cover-up that has attempted to keep 'secrets' hidden about the loose TT VC Jawa for over 10 years now.

These experts are well aware of the secrets and shared them amongst a certain few. That is the reason why you can not submit an original TT vinyl cape on a non-speckled mint condition loose Jawas and have it authenticated by AFA as a TT VC Jawa.

Anyway, I have more comprehensive and detailed research to conduct once I obtain multiple confirmed TT VC figures from other local collectors. But at this stage I believe these to be some of the unique features only present on a TT VC Jawa figure:
- speckles! Yes, every one of these figures now has speckles. It doesn't matter what part of the world you live in, if it's moc or if its been out of the light. This feature is unique due to the sub-standard plastic material used during production of this figure.
- large head: though this feature is not unique, it is unique to every speckled Jawa
- bandoleer: I need to conduct more research here, but it definitely appears to be more raised and defined
- large eyes: there are no known examples of a TT VC Jawa with small eyes
- weight: once again I need to confirm this with a larger sample size, but early research suggests that the TT VC Jawa appear to weigh less than a normal Jawa (even though they have a bigger head!)

Anyway, before this thread is shut down or derailed, remember these are my assumptions based on the evidence I have gathered.

My intentions have been clear from the start. I joined these forums to learn more about vintage figures and share my knowledge with others. I have been accused of being greedy and trying to make a quick profit, when as you can see I am BUYING (not selling) these figures and I am openly sharing all my knowledge about what I have discovered about these figures.

Its obvious that SW-Scout has top chimn in here....he has owned /ownes a lot of fine an authentic TT VC JAWAS....


I dont know one fucking man in the whole world who has had mor TT VC Jawas in his hands....

so I shut up and hopefully he speaks!


I can see the concerns of the ones who have one tnhat a TT VC cape can easily be faked. Fakers all over the world use such plattforms to inform themselves and then try to make their fakes better and nearly perfect. As long as figures will cost 200 ++ this is very very interesting for fakers!


The spots on the VC jawa are no clue that the vc cape is real.

1. you can get such figure withoutcape and put on a faked one.
2. these spots appear to be a material failure. something went wrong here in the fabric they were made. I dont know how fast they came up to change their reciept, but its possible that NOT ALL TT VC JAWAS MUST HAVE THESE SPOTS!!!


what I can also say:

COO IS NOT UNIQUE ON THIS ON!!

The coo appears on other Jawas as well! Also bandolier mold!!!

So if some people mean their is mold differences on a VC jawa they are WRONG! These are the same people that always claim this on other rare variants as well, because they only collect these main varinats. i have the knowledge of collecting coos since years and I can tell you for sure:

coo and mold are not unique


Regards
Wolff

I agree that the coo and mold is not unique, but these features combined with other features all together make an original TT VC loose Jawa unique.

There is no conspiracy theory I don't need to speak on Dax's behalf- I'm sure he's talking about not scanning the cape for copying. All other traits in regards to the loose capeless TT Jawa are no secret. It's just not everyone has the same level of enthusiasm for variants. I'd like to see more Toltoys Jawas with the larger hood confirmed to have the same COOs markings. But it looks like Wolff has confirmed neither are unique- mold or leg markings.

hi guy's,check this out.my figure has ton's of blue dot's and it's blueish green.it also has the early bird addition green translucent gun with side bump.Dan

We aren't talking about the cape here. We are talking about the original figure that was released with the cape.

BobaFett77 clearly posts, "There has been very little information released on authenticating loose ones though" and Bjamin_S responds with, "Given this figure's particular vulnerability to those without scruples, this has, as Dax has stated, been done on purpose." And clearly supports Dax, and they are definitely referring to the secrets about the loose figure features, not the capes.

Bjamin_S also says, "I don't think it would be responsible to let anyone know any more than is out there already." This shows that he is aware collectors know a few minor things about this loose figure. But he is implying that there are certain secret unique characteristics that can clearly identify this figure to be authentic. But he does not want everyone to know in fear of scammers taking advantage of them.

So we know the coo and mold variants are unique, and Bjamin_S knows that we know. So what else makes these figures loose? What do they know that they don' want the scammers (and regular collectors) to know?

vintageSWfan wrote:

hi guy's,check this out.my figure has ton's of blue dot's and it's blueish green.it also has the early bird addition green translucent gun with side bump.Dan

WOW Dan are all those VC Jawas yours buddy?

ya.there pretty badass.i just bought a ledy jawa afa 90 it's going to be added to this collection as soon as i get it then my jawa's will be complete.man did you see darth's carded headman.i nearly wet my pants i was so excited.can you beleive it a frgn headman carded.he's in the zone man.thank's Jay.Dan.

Has Luthersquire on RS already provided evidence that the big head feature along with everything else COO Bandolier strap etc are definitely not unique to the TT VC Jawa?

Just trying to catch where your coming from Mick because the above quotes i assumed were in relation to the TT VC Cape as nobody would want the particular details of that type of cape to fall in the hands of REPRO peddlers which is totally understandable.

Here is what im reading so far TT VC Jawa is not an exclusive mold to that figure this has now been proven with examples popping up from various experienced sources including photographic evidence to boot so this debunks your theory.

Second to this im waiting to hear back from a good friend of mine that deals in large volumes of loose figures in the UK all sourced from childhood collections, loft finds etc.

He is a bit of a variant nut he and takes notes of everything and he reckons taiwan vaders (not made in) were distributed in limited numbers by Palitoy / General Mills. At this stage he is going through his data, items and pictures to find some evidence but he believes 100% they were available outside of Australia.

Jay

jaymassive619 wrote:

Has Luthersquire on RS already provided evidence that the big head feature along with everything else COO Bandolier strap etc are definitely not unique to the TT VC Jawa?

Just trying to catch where your coming from Mick because the above quotes i assumed were in relation to the TT VC Cape as nobody would want the particular details of that type of cape to fall in the hands of REPRO peddlers which is totally understandable.

Here is what im reading so far TT VC Jawa is not an exclusive mold to that figure this has now been proven with examples popping up from various experienced sources including photographic evidence to boot so this debunks your theory.

I appreciate your input Jay. The features you mention (coo, bandolier, etc) are not unique to the TT VC loose Jawa. However, these features combined with 'other' features are what make the TT VC loose Jawa unique. If you combine all these features, including the speckles, head size and possibly weight, then all these features combined are unique only to the loose Jawa that was originally released with a Toltoys vinyl cape.

The quotes I mentioned above are not about the cape, they are talking about the loose Jawa. I have underlined and bold the comments that show they are clearly talking about the loose figure.

I understand you believe that the TT VC Jawa is not an exclusive mould to that figure, but to this date there has not been a single sighting of an original TT VC Jawa without the speckles. So even if the mould was used on other Jawas, the speckles combined with the rest of the mould features are what make this figure unique from any other Jawa.