Well here i go on another one of my rent.

The best book for vintage collectors is super hard to find and when it does pop up on ebay it sells for an insane amount of money. ( personally i think there is collusion between people to jack up the price of that book before it goes up for auction )

My beef is that if this is still super popular why doesn't the publisher print more of them as second or third print and with paperback covers instead of hard cover.

also we have been dangled with the 2nd edition in front of us for how long now? almost 2-3 years and no news on when it is going to finally come out. I don't wanna be an ----- but getting this book is like trying to win at the slots machines at vegas. Its either rigged at the auction or never gonna happen.

I don't think the auctions are rigged, just a simple case of little supply & big demand. As far as I know Tom D has allocated most of his time to ensure the 2nd edition will be available at the next celebration.

I certainly agree that an update on the 2nd edition is in order. However it was only a year and half ago when it was first announced, so it isn't a "Saga Museum" yet. Also, money hasn't been exchanged for preorders, and with John's fairly recent health issues, I'm willing to give some leniency.

At this point I'd just keep holding out rather than paying the insane prices on the 1st edition, but that is a decision you'll have to make.

To shed some light on the subject, at least to give you a frame of reference anyway.

John Kellerman has been extremely sick. He had a stroke not to long after the first edition of the book sold out. It wasn't sure if he would ever talk again, much less post on the forums or write another book. Thankfully, he did start to feel better and word started leaking out that a 2nd edition was coming out.

The 2nd Edition more or less was announced at C5 (which was a little over a year ago). And the best part about that? He took pre-orders without taking any money. They just took your credit card on file and you signed a waiver stating they could charge your card when orders went up. I signed it and my card has yet to be charged.

Now, I agree that an update should be coming or have happened by now. However, I'm willing to give him a pass given his health issues, etc. Who knows, it might not ever come. But it certainly isn't like another famous "pre-order" that we all know about.

John did post an update on his health on RS when he got to where he could see what was on his moniter. I thought that was very nice of him to do with all the support he was getting to let us know he was doing ok at the moment. I know him and Tom are working like crazy to get the 2nd addition out, but they also got other things going on at the same time, family, etc.

budspencer, dont take this as disrespect, but the way it sounds, its a "I want it now, not tomorrow" attitude you got going on with this. Theres copies out there, but you have to wait for one to come up in your price range. I waited a year to be able to land the one I had for the price I was willing to spend on one. I know every now and then, one gets listed on RS under $100. I would get one, but Im waiting for the updated one before I drop any cash on it. Like the other book Chris and Shawn mentioned, I pre-ordered a copy of it myself, but after a year and half, I cancelled it. Its been what, 3 years now when that was announced? And it was suppose to be in the final stages now of completion. Id put my money on Kellermans coming out before the other one does anyday. Just give it time waiting on it or finding one of the 1st editions to come up in your price range.

Kellerman's book has become a collectible in itself, so surely it makes sense that it would demand extra $$.

budspencer wrote:

My beef is that if this is still super popular why doesn't the publisher print more of them as second or third print and with paperback covers instead of hard cover.

The book was entirely self-published, so it would come out of his own pocket to print more. I believe it took him a while to sell them alll the first time, so he'd probably rather focus his efforts and money going into the new one, as his health allows him.

I got mine last year on RS for around 100. Not sure what they are going for now. Worth every penny!

It is not the fact that the second book is slow to come out. It is the fact that for whatever reasons that i do not know of course that the first book was not put in reprint or offered in paperback form. I do not get why the first book cannot go back on the press since it is still regarded as on high demand. I have never seen an auction so far that showed the book at any less than a 100$ which i believe is above the original cover price. Imagine this book going back to press with a cheaper cover at 50$. i bet you it would sell a ton of copy thru the collecting community. I still maintain that "some" auction are rigged for this one though but that is my opinion on that one.


Thus my impatience in seeing the second one coming. But whatever time it takes i guess we will have to live with it.

cheers!

JesseVader08 wrote:

Kellerman's book has become a collectible in itself, so surely it makes sense that it would demand extra $$.

budspencer wrote:

My beef is that if this is still super popular why doesn't the publisher print more of them as second or third print and with paperback covers instead of hard cover.

The book was entirely self-published, so it would come out of his own pocket to print more. I believe it took him a while to sell them alll the first time, so he'd probably rather focus his efforts and money going into the new one, as his health allows him.

If this was the case, the put it out as an Ebook on amazon. saves tons of work and could probably sell. He might have to make the book into a few volumes but what they hey....it can be done.

budspencer wrote:

It is not the fact that the second book is slow to come out. It is the fact that for whatever reasons that i do not know of course that the first book was not put in reprint or offered in paperback form. I do not get why the first book cannot go back on the press since it is still regarded as on high demand. I have never seen an auction so far that showed the book at any less than a 100$ which i believe is above the original cover price. Imagine this book going back to press with a cheaper cover at 50$. i bet you it would sell a ton of copy thru the collecting community. I still maintain that "some" auction are rigged for this one though but that is my opinion on that one.


Thus my impatience in seeing the second one coming. But whatever time it takes i guess we will have to live with it.

cheers!

John Kellerman totally self published the book. Which is an incredible amount of time, money, patience, effort and money.

I think it took him quite awhile to sell through his first print run. In fact I remember seeing him at a booth at C3 with stacks of books waiting to sell. At that time he was signing them as well. I just looked it up on RS, he didn't officially sell out until April of 2007. So essentially it took at least two years for him to sell out. And I want to say it was longer than that. That's a long time to have your inventory just sitting there not getting any return on the out of pocket expenses.

If I remember right, the cover price of the book was either $35 or $40. It might have been $50, but I can't remember exactly right now.

I think you have to look at it as any "collectible". It's only as valuable as what someone is willing to pay. They do pop up on the forums from time to time so just be patient. It is worth the wait. It sounds like the second edition is having some delays as well so your only option at this point is to wait it out and strike when you see one come up.


Edit:

I just looked it up. The book came out in August of 2003!!! So it took 4 years to sell out. That should tell you why there wasn't much rush to put out a second edition. Or to reprint the first.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t812601/

[QUOTE=ChrisGeorgoulias;18682447]It's still not finished.

Knowing it was delayed and seeing postings here month after month was tough to watch. Recently I asked Tom to update the website, but that hasn't been done. It's not ready and I don't think it will be ready in time for CVI either. I don't know when it will be ready, but work is progressing in delayed spurts. I talked to John about it a couple of months back, but he is heavily dependent on Tom to get all of the updates made.

However, when it finally is ready it will be awesome. Until then, I suggest putting it out of your mind. At least no money has been collected, so that's good. And even if people had paid, they would eventually get their copy.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but at least you know.

-chris[/QUOTE]

Waiting just makes it more special when we finally get a copy

This book was the first example that I know of where once it went out of print the prices went up and thus is now considered a collectible of itself. You'll see high BIN prices on ebay, but at the same time, I've seen it go for over $100 on regular auction as well. I think it boils down to supply and demand. The initial supply is now gone, but there is still demand. Had the book been published through a major publisher, I'm sure there would have been another printing by now. However, I'd imagine that by going through a publisher you're not given some of the same liberties you get in self publishing and that is why many of these collecting books are done by the author themselves. My understanding is that John had to house the entire stock of books himself and you have to publish enough that each book comes in at an affordable price. As was mentioned it also took John a good number of years to sell through his stock of books and he obviously had to pay to have them stored somewhere while waiting on the orders. My understanding as well is that in most of these projects the author is lucky enough to just break even and doesn't even end up making any profit. I also think these books come out and many collectors procrastinate in picking them up. It was on my list as soon as it was released, but I didn't buy my copy until John mentioned his stock was getting low.

We're now starting to see the same thing happen with the Meccano to Trilogo book which has now sold through and was also self published. All I can say is that when these books come up, snag them as fast as you can if you have any interest in them.

On the e-book thing, I completely agree there. I'd still buy the hardcopy, but I'd love to load up my entire collection library on my iPad for on the go. I've scanned a few of the various magazine articles and such that I've picked up for this very reason. I hope at some point some of the authors would make this an option.

Something that might interest you is the authors panel at Celebration 5. Here's a link to where you can watch it and get an idea of the authors perspective.

Here's a thought though, how about you buy a copy at the inflated price, have a look through and read it cover to cover, then sell it on when you are done. You'll have the information you want from the 1st book and then can get the 2nd edition when it does get released.

well nowadays you can actually print as many copies as required thru self publishing systems, so you don't have to put your house on mortgage in hopes that the 20 boxes of books you have in your basement sells. A print on demand would be great for this kind of book actually.

Don't wanna be an ------- and drill on the issue but i wonder if John ever thought about this or got advice to do it. There are better ways to publish now than even 10 years ago.

I know because i am looking to publish on Kindle. If i can just get my set up done for a amazon account to sell ebooks...

Heres the whole book without the pix. I just saved you $100.

http://www.rebelscum.com/kellermancards120.pdf

I love how there's always someone who's from outside a project who has all the answers. You write and publish the thing hotshot.

Too many posts to like here and no like button!!!

I wouldn't want to self finance a book, not even a spot the dog one let alone a mammoth star wars bible- give the guy a break until he actually takes your money (which would mean the book was ready..)