So sometime down the line, the blue will go light blue, then grey according to this chart. And the yellow paint on the knees will also fade to a lighter color along with it. Shouldve found this yesterday. As you can see on the black chart, the grey will also fade to tan also , for other figures as the colors fade and deteriate. And since the limbs are made of softer plastic compared to the torsos, they will fade faster than the torsos will.[/quote]

Hmm... So we get down to the GOOD batch - BAD batch thing again, huh? Yeah, well... It definitely makes sense with the deterioration chart, but then again: HOW COME, not ALL Klaatus are tan limbs? Wait: I know... because of BAD batch - GOOD batch situation. How could I forget? I respect your and your fellas' opinion on this subject. However: does matte dark grey turn into a bit glossy very dark grey (almost black) over time? Just because the TAN limbs Klaatus all have much darker (almost black) boots. I have six of them so I am pretty much positive about that. I think, based on the logic of fading, the dark colours change to paler ones over time. How come the 'faded' tan Klaatus have dark boots on their supposingly 'pale' legs?......

I am sure one of you have a ready answer for this question, too. I am eager to learn.



Picture: standard HK and Trilogo Klaatu on the LEFT, with dark grey boots, all the others are tan limb Klaatus (mixed limbs "transformants" or DGs if you like) with VERY dark (almost black) boots.

I believe it IS indeed a good thread! We can discuss the pros and cons for a Heck of a long time!

Not again, bud. Read above and you'll get your answer. And like I said yesterday, all the figures were meant to have the same limbs. The ones with different ones are faded as was told yesterday.

And why are you digging up old threads just to start in on something that was proven to you yesterday on all these faded figures? Bored? Or are you still trying to prove all your faded figures are legit when they aren't? And what are you talking about spare limbs? The figures were put together with what came down the line, whether good or bad, unless there was a defect in it they could see. None of the works could tell what the limbs would do 30 years in the future when they assembled them. No I didnt work there or have someone who did. Im justy using what I LEARNED from READING posts on other websites from guys who KNOW what they are talking about, instead of someone throwing THEROYS and ALMOST THEROYS out there trying to put out mis-information on something.

trying to prove all your faded figures are legit when they aren't? And what are you talking about spare limbs? [/quote]

I am not trying to prove my faded figures are legitimate. But I AM trying to prove that not all color differences are caused by fading.

Anyway, I sent that remark to Joe first of all. This whole discussion-thing on colours seems pointless to me, so I finish my comments with this one.

YOU WIN!!

Chris_J wrote:

Not again, bud. Read above and you'll get your answer. And like I said yesterday, all the figures were meant to have the same limbs. The ones with different ones are faded as was told yesterday.

And why are you digging up old threads just to start in on something that was proven to you yesterday on all these faded figures? Bored? Or are you still trying to prove all your faded figures are legit when they aren't?

Did I make you angry? Sorry!

Hutthunter wrote:

trying to prove all your faded figures are legit when they aren't? And what are you talking about spare limbs?

I am not trying to prove my faded figures are legitimate. But I AM trying to prove that not all color differences are caused by fading.

Anyway, I sent that remark to Joe first of all. This whole discussion-thing on colours seems pointless to me, so I finish my comments with this one.

YOU WIN!!

No one is trying to win mate. So don't go down that road. People are trying to help you.

Chris, Joe and Ganja are trying to help you understand all of this variant stuff. Discoloration is a very interesting thing that does wild and crazy things to figures. So just have a little patience, relax and take it all in. There is no contest here and there is no prize at the end. Everyone is just trying to help each other out.

Here is an excellent thread started recently by a knowledgeable variant collector. It would do you some good to READ the entire first post. That will tell you a lot about discoloration AND the production process.

Happy Reading!

No, if you pissed me off, you would know it. Its just it seems funny you brought up two threads a month old everybody left alone to blast someones comments to make it sound like your all knowing in the last two days. We tried to tell you what we learned from other members whove been in the game alot longer than we have to help newer guys along with their collections by giving them facts., not mis-information. I was trying to make a nice post when I put up that color chart to help show how limbs will fade to different colors. I never said they all do, but you tried to flip it around saying I meant all limbs. And as for your Klatuus, sure the limbs faded, doesnt mean the black paint does. Im talking about limbs the same as you were and I just added that the yellow could fade to a lighter color as the limbs fade. Is that too hard to comprehend? Try this then

Bad batch of plastic= faded limbs faster
Good batch of plastic= limbs would fade slower if at all

And as far as colors fading, you cant go light to dark. Its not possible, so I dont know what the hell your talking about on that. If your talking about the boots on Klaatu, thats damn paint not plastic so it wont fade as the limbs did.

Sorry, didnt see your post there Chris. You were doing yours as I was putting mine in.

Chris_J wrote:

And as far as colors fading, you cant go light to dark. Its not possible, so I dont know what the hell your talking about on that. If your talking about the boots on Klaatu, thats damn paint not plastic so it wont fade as the limbs did.

I think I made clear what I was talking about. Of course the boots. I did not mention anything else. You got it:
"you cant go light to dark". This is what I wanted to point out! In the Fett thread I read that the painted parts also fade and discolour, not only the colour of the plastic itself. But the Klaatu boots don't . BUT my Real point is: with those faded legs the Klaatus still have Darker boots than the standard Klaatu! Can you comprehend that? I did NOT mean they turn from LIGHT to DARK. I pointed out the opposite! That it is impossible! So the tan limbs Klaatu figures had Originally darker boots than the standard grey limbed ones. Meaning: they were DIFFERENT from the normal ones originally. Like the white skirt differs from the thinner brown skirts. I hope you won't say that is degradation, too...

OK, been great talking to you... I suppose...

No one is trying to win mate. So don't go down that road. People are trying to help you.

Chris, Joe and Ganja are trying to help you understand all of this variant stuff. Discoloration is a very interesting thing that does wild and crazy things to figures. So just have a little patience, relax and take it all in. Everyone is just trying to help each other out.

OK, I appreciate that. Really. But I cannot help getting the feeling they think I am stupid just because I read the discoloration thread now, and not a month or whatever ago, and so I have that bad old opinion some other members don't have anymore... I have to read more about this discoloration stuff, that is for sure. VERY SAD that Brian's Toys and such are making huge amounts of profit on these "freak?" figures! I was lucky not to have to spend more on them than for standard ones... (mostly)

Here is an excellent thread started recently by a knowledgeable variant collector. It would do you some good to READ the entire first post. That will tell you a lot about discoloration AND the production process.

[/quote]

OK, thanks. I will read it through tomorrow or some time later. Cheers

Chris_J wrote:

And as for your Klatuus, sure the limbs faded, doesnt mean the black paint does. Im talking about limbs the same as you were and I just added that the yellow could fade to a lighter color as the limbs fade. Is that too hard to comprehend?

Miss that part? I actually agreed with you on it, but it must of slipped by.

And no one thinks your stupid, but when we try to explain something to you, you try to flip it around and make it look like we dont know what we're trying to explain about it. Its just that we have seen this song and dance before over on RS over the past 4 years when it first hit hardcore, and some still dont get it even with evidence in front of them. Like RebelChris said, all we're trying to do is help out to better inform everybody on the misconcept of whats what, not try to make anyone look or feel stupid. Believe me, thats the last thing I or any of the other guys want. And since you brought up Brians Toys, you see what we are trying to get out there, the facts on all these so-called variants. Ive seen guys drop $20-50 on a so-called variant, even more actually, and go nuts when they are told what it is, a deteriated figure. It happens when they find out that a figure they drop hundreds on turns out to be fakes, like a dyed burgendy cape Squidhead. bWe just dont want a fellow collector get burned for a ton of money thinking they found something. I can asure you that there will be a new variant come up everyday. There has been for the last few years. When sellers on Ebay find a discolored figure, they label them as a new variant, never seen before.

Not sure if you seen it yesterday or not, but I linked to some threads on RS for a bunch of threads on variants. Whenever you get time, go back and check those out along with the one RC linked for you. They are very good thread with a ton of info in them.

As for the white skirt Klaatus, yhea thats deteriation too. Just Kidding. I actually got one of each of those MOC. The white skirt is on a Canadian card and the tan skirt is on a Palitoy. So most likely that was two different materials used on that. Why, who knows. I dont remember that ever being brought up if it ever was.

They used two different materials because they ran out of 100 thread count Yak hair cloth.

variants can bite my shiny metal ass

Hyver wrote:

variants can bite my shiny metal ass

Well put Bender!

[quote="Chris_J"]

Chris_J wrote:

Miss that part? I actually agreed with you on it, but it must of slipped by.

... more actually, and go nuts when they are told what it is, a deteriated figure. It happens when they find out that a figure they drop hundreds on turns out to be fakes, like a dyed burgendy cape Squidhead. bWe just dont want a fellow collector get burned for a ton of money thinking they found something. I can asure you that there will be a new variant come up everyday. There has been for the last few years. When sellers on Ebay find a discolored figure, they label them as a new variant, never seen before.

As for the white skirt Klaatus, yhea thats deteriation too. Just Kidding. I actually got one of each of those MOC. The white skirt is on a Canadian card and the tan skirt is on a Palitoy. So most likely that was two different materials used on that. Why, who knows. I dont remember that ever being brought up if it ever was.

Yep, I agree that the bad thing is to sell these DG (degenerated, deteriorated) figs for a high, unrealistic price. I dont buy them for that and not planning to sell for that, either.

As for Klaatu skirt: yep, Palitoy and GM figures have the tan skirt and I had a cut-out from a Canadian card with white furry skirt what I opened to have my mint "copy" of Klaatu w white skirt. White skirt was released in Japan, too. I have a MOC WS Klaatu from Tsukuda ( it is the less known factory in Japan besides Takara)

Thanks for all the info and opinions. I read some of the threads and will keep on reading when I get the time. :scratch:

Sad part about it is, that the Tsukuda figures are US release figures. The only thing that sets them apart is the sticker and nothing else. I posted this in the other thread, COO and variations, I believe thats the right thread. There was only 3 (4 if you count the wind-up R2, which some people dont) figures released from Japan. And those are the Alt sculpt Vader, Stormie, and C-3PO. Eveything else with the Takara and Tsukuda stickers were on US released cardbacks as you can see in this from the SWCA.


Tsukuda

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=59831


Takara

US card
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=47196

Japan release alt sculpt
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=42058

Chris_J wrote:

Sad part about it is, that the Tsukuda figures are US release figures. The only thing that sets them apart is the sticker and nothing else. I posted this in the other thread, COO and variations, I believe thats the right thread. There was only 3 (4 if you count the wind-up R2, which some people dont) figures released from Japan. And those are the Alt sculpt Vader, Stormie, and C-3PO. Eveything else with the Takara and Tsukuda stickers were on US released cardbacks as you can see in this from the SWCA.


Tsukuda

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=59831


Takara

US card
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=47196

Japan release alt sculpt
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=42058

I was about to say the same thing. All Tsukuda MOCs are imports from US Kenner cards. Just like Clipper from the ROTJ line, they are just imported from other countries.

So there is no variant from Tsukuda.

Hyver wrote:

variants can bite my shiny metal ass

Hear, hear!

Capetown wrote:

Hear, hear!

x 2!!!

aussiejames wrote:

Tri logo with 'fading' colours

Correction: There are Tri Fetts with light brown belts most commonly with painted knee, unpainted dart & can have slightly darker blue plastic.


Allen & Andy's pics

I have another example of the light limbs fett. Head, right arm and both legs are light limb. But left arm is same Colour as torso"bluish grey", I this is Sim damage, surely the left arm will turn Colour as well?

markseowlichang wrote:

I have another example of the light limbs fett. Head, right arm and both legs are light limb. But left arm is same Colour as torso"bluish grey", I this is Sim damage, surely the left arm will turn Colour as well?

Not necessarily. It is thought that the reason for the color change is due to the plastic itself. The limbs may not all be from the same batch of plastic nor exposed to the same conditions. In other words one day they may have made right arms and instead of rolling them to the hot warehouse, kept them moving directly to the assistant only room, we don't know and can't know. Sometimes with these discolored figures you can still see the actual color of the real plastic underneath. Sometimes a light scratch like a fingernail can get to the original color, other times like the rings in a tree you have to cut cross section. One thing is certain among all collectors though, no fett was ever released from the factory this way. There is not one collector who I have ever seen come forward and say as a child they remember their fett on the card at the store brand new with odd colored limbs to his torso.

Reading these very long threads, the topic of the yellow shields bobba fett got a bit off track in my opinion but would like to shed some light regarding the “yellowing” phenomena. The mechanism of yellowing and pinking in plastics is well studied and well understood. There are entire phD’s around the topic. Plastics are typically stabilized using primary and secondary antioxidants. The secondary antioxidants protect the polymer mostly during the extrusion processing (phosphite AO turn to phosphates) while primary antioxidants (typically phenolic compounds) protect the polymer longer term. The chemical reactions (mechanisms) that explain how AO protect the polymers have been proven and well known. Among the different chemical reactions that happen, there is a side reaction where the phenolic compound produces a quinone (a highly colored chemical!), even concentrations in the ppb (parts per billion) result in a color change (typically called yellowing or sometimes pinking), the type of quinone produced affects this. The quinone reaction is reversible, exposure with UV light (like sun exposure) or UV radiation in the presence of oxidizers can somewhat reverse the reaction but not completely.

I have worked in plastics for over 20 years and my background is chemical engineering with masters in polymer processing and rheology. Not that I know everything but do know some. The yellow shield boba fett does not seems to be explained by the known degradation mechanisms, and as I said there is over 60+ years of research in the area. Also I have not seen this figure with a different COO than the Hong Kong one described in the article from my mexico compatriots Luis and Josefina Gálvez.

Could this bobba fett be a rare poch or pbp variant? The yellow paint of this figure does not seems the result of pigment/AO/polymer degradation mechanisms.

I think this question was raised before in this thread but Is there any evidence of trustworthy sources that a typical orange fett turned into the yellow one? The ones presented still look orange and not the yellow color.

Perhaps @javiswspain and other Spanish collectors can clarify to us?

After looking at multitude of eBay listings looking for clues about the origin of this yellow shields Bobba feet I find the following:
1) they are all Hong Kong
2) some of these fetts got what is called “removable rocket” scar in its rocket launcher
3) some of the bobba fetts yellow shields are mail away removable rocket mail away offer
Although there is no definitive proof for this , there is some evidence that supports and hopefully this enigma can be deciphered in the near future.

Hello all,

Just stumbled upon this tread and decided to register to add my input into the conversation. Sorry if I am going to open old wounds so to speak or provide you with a few paragraphs on content. But a lot of people’s comments here are misguided or completely incorrect when it comes to mass production, paints and plastics. So this is my first ever post here. Hopefully I do not upset anyone as that is not my intent.
First of all I collect vintage Star Wars figures. I have a background in plastics and paint processes and how thermoplastic injection processes occur.

I own and have for some years now (20yrs) a Hong Kong Boba Feet with what some people are calling a Neon Yellow Boba Fett. He has not changed colour since I have owned him. I have read all 4 pages of this tread on the topic of fading colours and leg variations of colour.
First of all my Fett. I can confirm the following. It is a Hong Kong version and does have the rocket firing scar on it’s back pack. So this may be an indicator based upon the above comment.

I’ll post more photos later.

The leg and torso colours are very close if not 100% the same. But this is not a figure that has faded due to sunlight. Kenner may wanted to get the figures exactly the same colour but when you mass produce something (especially as far back as the 70’s and 80’s) batch mixes and product lines need to be taken into account.

Sunlight and external elements:
Sunlight (direct) and oxygen do fade plastic on the side it contacts over long (very long) periods of time. It is why PET or PVC clear plastic card bubble on your cards turn yellow over time as well as the chemical compound in that plastic as it goes hard and brittle. Sunlight will also fade paint. However the suns effects on paint colours is based on how well it retains light and the elements it has been in direct contact with.
So we can rule sunlight out of a figure that has a colour consistent change. As all these figures based on evidence here have faded at the same rate. Now when I talk about fading I am basing this on what peoples comments here are. I DO NOT believe it is due to fading.

Chemical compounds in acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS):

So that leaves chemical breakdown of the plastic used. When plastic breaks down due to chemical reactions in the molecules it does not simply fade but turns yellow and or brittle on the outer skin. An example of this is a white Wompa. Left to the elements the Wompa will turn yellow. Yet the paint remains the same on the horns. This is because the plastics surface touching the elements is breaking down and one of the chemical reactions of this is a colour change. But the plastic is only breaking down were the air hits the surface. For e.g. your Blue Max Rebo which has turned grey is an effect of the colour bleaching process in the dye in the plastic. If you cut open old Max rebo he would be the original blue on the inside. Max Rebo when he was first released was Blue. But his torso and limbs are made from different plastics so you will see his arms, legs and head start to change colour while the harder plastics retains the colour better (his torso). Cut his limbs in half and that colour will be there on show. Thus a chemical breakdown of the dye in the plastic.
So plastics do change colour over time due to the elements in the air. But that does depend on the colour used. The darker the colour the more shades it will change. This is a fact not a theory.
Another thing that needs to be put into context is safety standards. Yes Kenner had to meet safety standards with it’s toys back in the 70’s all the way through production of it’s toys. If it didn’t we would all have rocket firing Boba’s. But the safety hazard I speak of is the fire retardant one. The ABS had a chemical to assist in reducing the figure from burning. It was great for the Injection molding process and perfect for fire standards. This ABS has these qualities. They are heat resistant to a certain temperature and this heat will also assist in yellowing the ABS compound.

Let’s look at a Boba Fett. His light grey will unlikely change by many shades of colour if at all because grey does not hold light as well as dark grey. So sunlight will not break down his colours but may make him go yellowish.

The chemical reaction over time to the grey dye may slowly turn the item a few shades lighter but this would be consistent.

So why do some figures have slightly different colours in the legs ect? Easily the biggest explanation for this is how the ABS (the figures body) and polypropylene (figures limbs and head) pellets were mixed in the injection molding process. ABS and polypropylene Pellets are usually ordered in one colour from the factory. They are then heated and injected into a mold, once cooled they are ejected out and ready for cleaning up and painting prior to welding. The colouring differences are ordered from the factory under quality control measures. However some colours do change slightly based on orders made. So you may produce 1000 figures in Grey. But the next batched of ABS maybe one shade darker or lighter. That one or two shades is not enough for any company to send the stock back. They may contact the manufacturer and question the grey colouring and request a check but the colours sent would still be used within their quality measures. Remember Kenner made Millions of Star Wars figures back then. A slight shade of colour difference is not enough for a facility in Hong Kong to send it back and stop production while a new batch arrives as it slows down the manufacturing process.

Colours in paint are the same. Mass production is about consistency and variables. Kids do not care about their boba fett being slightly different to their mates. After all its Boba Fett, he was (and still is) a bad ass figure!

So you can see some legs are different colours this is simply because one leg came from a different batch to the rest made. Or the colour change in the polypropylene happened as they poured the new batch of material in. They do not pull the injection molder apart to clean it unless it is a full colour change. Legs, arms, heads and torso were made in mass. Painted and then put together with a plastic weld machine (ultrasonic sealing). So an arm from another batch can be put onto a figure with a different shade of colour. That would make it a factory error to some. But it is just the process of toy making to Kenner. You see some of these examples on this tread.

Painting:
So in short the slightly different colours in paint are factory. Orange will not turn bright yellow so a yellow (neon yellow) Fett was that colour from factory. The one I have is bright yellow. It also has a dab of paint where the painter corrected a missing spot using the same paint colour (Fetts left knee). The Orange may fade but will not turn to a brighter yellow but instead a faded orange (musk colour). The paint used on plastic has to be rubbed off and will not flake off because of the way it adheres to plastic.
The darker the paint pigment the more changes it will fade. It is why a white car still looks white 20 years later and a yellow car fades in spots before peeling of if left out in the sun. However the shades of fading are based on a few different variations. What type of paint is used and the amount of direct sunlight the paint has been left in direct contact with.

An example of colour fading is evident in car paint. Two cars left out in the sun. One is left day and night to the elements while the other is parked under the shade of a carport. The car in the sun will eventually fade to a dull colour by a few shades prior to cracking and peeling. It is how paint breaks down on a car. But it will only change a few shades lighter before flaking and coming apart. While the car left in the shaded area will retain its colour (and clear coat). In saying this for a plastic based paint (Latex) that actually chemically adheres on contact to the plastic, would need to stay in direct sunlight for years to fade or wear off. It will also only fade on the side effected by the direct sunlight thus making it uneven. Paint will not fade at the same rate in the sun or left to the elements. That would only happen under a chemical reaction. If a figure facing direct sunlight fades the part not facing the sun will actually retain it’s colour. Same as the car example.

End statement:
So is a bright yellow (neon) Fett a variant? That depends on how many were made and by the sounds of it a few were so yes it is a variant. But it is factory paint variant. The paint could have been a one off batch. Meaning only a few hundred or thousand were made. After 40 years even less remain. It is a colour variant and not a one off. To me an actual variant is a smile on a Bespin Lando Vs a No Smile Bespin Lando or a Vinyl cape Jawa V a Cloth jawa. Colours are simply apart of the factory process of ordering supply’s, mass production and sending out to make all those kids screaming for Star Wars figures happy while making Kenner (and George Lucas) a lot of money in the process. But most of all it is not an error or a mistake. It is simply a colour variation used at the time by the factory to get the toys made, packaged and sent out to stores and into the hands of a very happy child.

Hope this helps.